Depending on my audience and the game, I will give general strategy advice for a game after teaching it: "For now, consider shipping and building to be the two major strategies in this game. Focus on one of them."
If it's a short game, I'll just demonstrate by example.
I used to play with a guy who once ripped a page from a rule book and lit it with his cigarette in response to my explanation of how he had been cheating for the last 4 sessions.
I listened to the episode. Because my name was mentioned and I was misquoted/paraphrased by Rym (which I have no problem with) I thought I'd clarify.
When I went to the NerdNYC Recess game day, I said it was probably the nerdiest thing I've ever done. It was the first time I'd hung out with Rym and Scott (I think) and they treated me like a person. Everyone else treated me like a game piece.
We were all given name badges. That struck me as totally weird. It let everyone skip introductions when sitting down at the table to play a game. It was like we were an ad-hoc network that wouldn't care who or what we were connected to, but when pinging, as long as we got back a valid response, that was good enough as far as personal interaction went. Name tags removed the one possible bit of socialization that is normally the way into being friendly. No eye contact needed either, just look at the name tag and on with the dice rolling!
There was a lot more to it than that, but it was just so different to how I've played all board games and RPG-type things in the past. In the juggling world, there can be more board gaming at a juggling convention than juggling! Everyone is playing some kind of game all the time. But we play as a way to become better friends, to draw people in, to pass the time, to win money (with poker tournaments, etc), and so many other things. These can include the hardest core of German board games, especially in Germany, but the end goal is never to play a game, it's always to have fun with old or new friends first, and that good friends also enjoy designing and testing board games together is just a way to become better friends. If all I wanted to do was play a game... well... I can play against my iPhone, I guess.
Which means that, at Nerd NYC Recess, I was probably "that guy". Also it was why I stuck with playing games with Rym and Scott, and in one of those games made a new kinda-friend who joined this forum.
I haven't been to a NerdNYC Recess in quite a while, but when I do go, I much prefer to be the guy running the games (and sitting in to play if there is an extra slot). When you are the one running the game, you can set the tone, and try to encourage people to have a social experience.
At my table everyone is allowed to bring new players into the fold but said players must be sponsored by an existing player who puts their reputation on the line. One of my players was formally banned from bringing female players into the group. Reason being that the females he would bring were either very flaky or thought game night was a date and wanted to alone with him not gaming with us.
I can sometimes be shy around people I've just met, especially if I don't have something I can immediately bring to the discussion. Sometimes I'll run into people I know at PAX who are already engrossed in a game, and I'll have a moment of hesitation wondering if I'm being That Guy. It usually passes pretty quickly, and I either pull out my phone, watch the game, or find something else to do. Still, if I'm ever being That Guy, call me out on it. I can be a little slow picking up social cues when I'm running on lack of sleep. ^_~
Everyone has been "that Guy" to someone or some group, it's more when you are "that guy" to 80% of the people you come across there might be a problem ^_^
Sure, and it's all well and good for the folks without that problem to smile about it, but for those who really ARE "that guy" to 80% or more of people... wow, it sucks. It's not a simple fix like "take a shower" or "stop eating Cheetos", either, it's "reverse engineer your personality and figure out what went wrong, then address it piece by piece."
Sure, and it's all well and good for the folks without that problem to smile about it, but for those who really ARE "that guy" to 80% or more of people... wow, it sucks. It's not a simple fix like "take a shower" or "stop eating Cheetos", either, it's "reverse engineer your personality and figure out what went wrong, then address it piece by piece."
Sucks.
What makes it even worse is the "that guys" can't even team up together because they will hate each other. Imagine an anime club consisting of all Morts.
While/after listening this episode I, for a moment, wondered if I might be "that guy". Then I realized that probably wouldn't be in three ongoing games if I really were that big of a that guy. So all is well in my gaming life.
Rym and Scott's superpower is making shy geeks worry about their personalities.
I felt a great disturbance, as if tens of geeks suddenly wallowed in self doubt. Yeah even I wondered for a split second if I've ever been "that guy," primarily b/c meeting people from the internet is an incredibly awkward experience the first few times you do it, but then I realized I don't give a crap.
Sure, and it's all well and good for the folks without that problem to smile about it, but for those who really ARE "that guy" to 80% or more of people... wow, it sucks. It's not a simple fix like "take a shower" or "stop eating Cheetos", either, it's "reverse engineer your personality and figure out what went wrong, then address it piece by piece."
Sucks.
What makes it even worse is the "that guys" can't even team up together because they will hate each other. Imagine an anime club consisting of all Morts.
There are of course degrees and severities of "Mortness". Small groups work, but not without awkwardness.
Lucky for me I grew out of full-on "Mortness" at like, 12. I'm still working on the vestiges of "that guy"-ness, though. Probably will never be finished.
Rym and Scott's superpower is making shy geeks worry about their personalities.
I felt a great disturbance, as if tens of geeks suddenly wallowed in self doubt. Yeah even I wondered for a split second if I've ever been "that guy," primarily b/c meeting people from the internet is an incredibly awkward experience the first few times you do it, but then I realized I don't give a crap.
You are 0% that guy. Even your baby is 0% that baby.
Rym and Scott's superpower is making shy geeks worry about their personalities.
I felt a great disturbance, as if tens of geeks suddenly wallowed in self doubt. Yeah even I wondered for a split second if I've ever been "that guy," primarily b/c meeting people from the internet is an incredibly awkward experience the first few times you do it, but then I realized I don't give a crap.
You are 0% that guy. Even your baby is 0% that baby.
Rym and Scott's superpower is making shy geeks worry about their personalities.
I felt a great disturbance, as if tens of geeks suddenly wallowed in self doubt. Yeah even I wondered for a split second if I've ever been "that guy," primarily b/c meeting people from the internet is an incredibly awkward experience the first few times you do it, but then I realized I don't give a crap.
I kinda give a shit, I kinda don't. Like, if someone I only knew on the internet came to my country, and made some effort to say Hi, I'd propably get them a small gift of some sort, a welcome to the country sort of thing. It's only polite, after all, that's the sort of thing friends do. But, I'm not that bothered about the meeting part, because whatever. They're just people, and people is people. Just because I know them from somewhere else doesn't mean they're not just people, it just gives you a leg-up on starting a conversation.
Nuri hit the nail on the head, but to go further, I can summarize my current feelings succinctly.
Many years ago, I decided that I would no longer allow other people to pin their happiness (or lack thereof) to me. I simply do not have the energy to be responsible for the happiness of others in a general sense.
To take RIT as an example, we somewhat famously cast an extreme case of "that guy" out of our social circle. Forcibly. Crying was involved. It came to that only because social cues and body language didn't make it through. Further, he exhibited surprising levels of persistence.
The problem was a tiny, perfect microcosm of the "that guy" problem in gaming group discovery. This guy would roam public spaces at RIT where he knew we would be looking for us. We altered our dinner schedule to try and avoid him, and it got to the point that we actively hid in far corners of Gracies hoping he wouldn't see us. We had to go through all manner of ridiculous contortions to get out of driving him with us to the movies. We switched lounges when he figured out where we gathered. He'd follow us TO OUR DOORS, where we'd have to make an excuse and lock it in his face and get away.
One time, I went to my dorm room (as everyone else did) to chill for an hour, then reconvene once he was gone. MOTHERFUCKER WAS HANGING OUT BY THE DOOR TO MY BUILDING WAITING FOR ME TO COME BACK OUT. I actually spotted him and took a long alternate route through the tunnels to meet everyone in Peterson 3.
We increasingly avoided gathering in public. He'd still find us occasionally (actively seeking as he was), and would proceed to kill any hope of conversation. We couldn't just act naturally, converse naturally, do what we wanted to do. We had to be careful to not even hint at future plans, games we were in, anime we were planning to marathon, lest he show up. Our sole interaction because a surreptitious attempt to ditch him until he was actually gone.
Does that seem cruel? Mean? Probably. But the simple truth was that he didn't jive with us. There was no way we would ever be comfortable around him. We didn't have shared common ground beyond a superficial mutual enjoyment of "anime" in the most general sense. He was unpleasant to be around, and we simply didn't want to be his friend. He was boring (to us), unattractive (to us), smelly (objectively), and really liked violent hentai. He was an extreme example, almost a living stereotype. But even if he had simply been incompatible socially and nothing more, he would have been one person (among millions) with whom I just didn't have any interested in friendship;
Being kind and putting up with him just lead to deeper resentment and cemented in his head the idea that we were his friends. He mistook charity and pity for friendship. (This is something I've struggled with my entire life). He latched onto us because we treated him like a human being rather than being openly hostile (like most other people were with him). He did not (or would not) see social cues that we didn't want to see him. He did not respond to fairly direct attempts to tell him he wasn't invited to something.
Eventually, we had to tell him directly that he wasn't welcome. (TheWhaleShark took this one for the team. We've described that awkward 20 minutes in detail several times in the past). It was only an act of outright hostility that drove him away. There was no way to disengage from the unwelcome engagement that did not cause real pain.
I take great pains to not hurt people. But simultaneously no one has a right to my time or my friendship. No one is entitled to monopolize my "social receptors." I choose to be friends with some people, but not others. I am under no obligation to be friends with a particular person. If I let all strangers rely on me for their personal happiness, I will never have a moment's rest or comfort.
You can see how one "that guy" drove an entire social circle (the FRC) underground, off the RADAR. One dude at a relatively small and isolated campus of 12,000 people was unavoidable. One single, solitary dude.
I have no problem with anybody as long as they don't have some ability to control my destiny through some sort of judgement. Then I am a mess, it's one of the reasons I could never give presentations in front of teachers, but I could talk at conventions.
I get that sometimes there's just no helping the guy and/or gal, as they as a first step have to realize they're broken (I always thought I was a nice, sensitive, empathetic guy and couldn't understand why everybody else seemed to totally lack empathy). And I know you're not specifically responding to me or my comments, Rym. I just wanted to put it out there in the thread that the "that guy" type people out there aren't typically malicious, they're just clueless and often not really at fault. Shit sucks for them.
I think it would take a truly exceptional and patient person to fix one of those folks who wasn't internally primed for it already. It's a sad situation. I'll never have close friends for as long as I live. I'm just not wired for it. At least now, though, I can generally be at ease in most groups without sticking out like a sore thumb.
When Rochelle mentioned how chill Matt's baby was, for example, my overriding and powerful impulse was to reply with how awesome my 3 year old is, even though that would be a total non-sequitur. "That guy" has conversational instincts that are all wrong, and wants to steer the topic to himself because in his head, that's like hot-wiring his inclusion into the group. He's been "out" for so long and so desperate to be "in" that he's no longer got the patience to let it happen organically, which is tragically the only way it's ever gonna happen.
Comments
If it's a short game, I'll just demonstrate by example.
When I went to the NerdNYC Recess game day, I said it was probably the nerdiest thing I've ever done. It was the first time I'd hung out with Rym and Scott (I think) and they treated me like a person. Everyone else treated me like a game piece.
We were all given name badges. That struck me as totally weird. It let everyone skip introductions when sitting down at the table to play a game. It was like we were an ad-hoc network that wouldn't care who or what we were connected to, but when pinging, as long as we got back a valid response, that was good enough as far as personal interaction went. Name tags removed the one possible bit of socialization that is normally the way into being friendly. No eye contact needed either, just look at the name tag and on with the dice rolling!
There was a lot more to it than that, but it was just so different to how I've played all board games and RPG-type things in the past. In the juggling world, there can be more board gaming at a juggling convention than juggling! Everyone is playing some kind of game all the time. But we play as a way to become better friends, to draw people in, to pass the time, to win money (with poker tournaments, etc), and so many other things. These can include the hardest core of German board games, especially in Germany, but the end goal is never to play a game, it's always to have fun with old or new friends first, and that good friends also enjoy designing and testing board games together is just a way to become better friends. If all I wanted to do was play a game... well... I can play against my iPhone, I guess.
Which means that, at Nerd NYC Recess, I was probably "that guy". Also it was why I stuck with playing games with Rym and Scott, and in one of those games made a new kinda-friend who joined this forum.
Sucks.
http://gunshowcomic.com/ac/
Lucky for me I grew out of full-on "Mortness" at like, 12. I'm still working on the vestiges of "that guy"-ness, though. Probably will never be finished.
not even in the face of armageddon
Nuri hit the nail on the head, but to go further, I can summarize my current feelings succinctly.
Many years ago, I decided that I would no longer allow other people to pin their happiness (or lack thereof) to me. I simply do not have the energy to be responsible for the happiness of others in a general sense.
To take RIT as an example, we somewhat famously cast an extreme case of "that guy" out of our social circle. Forcibly. Crying was involved. It came to that only because social cues and body language didn't make it through. Further, he exhibited surprising levels of persistence.
The problem was a tiny, perfect microcosm of the "that guy" problem in gaming group discovery. This guy would roam public spaces at RIT where he knew we would be looking for us. We altered our dinner schedule to try and avoid him, and it got to the point that we actively hid in far corners of Gracies hoping he wouldn't see us. We had to go through all manner of ridiculous contortions to get out of driving him with us to the movies. We switched lounges when he figured out where we gathered. He'd follow us TO OUR DOORS, where we'd have to make an excuse and lock it in his face and get away.
One time, I went to my dorm room (as everyone else did) to chill for an hour, then reconvene once he was gone. MOTHERFUCKER WAS HANGING OUT BY THE DOOR TO MY BUILDING WAITING FOR ME TO COME BACK OUT. I actually spotted him and took a long alternate route through the tunnels to meet everyone in Peterson 3.
We increasingly avoided gathering in public. He'd still find us occasionally (actively seeking as he was), and would proceed to kill any hope of conversation. We couldn't just act naturally, converse naturally, do what we wanted to do. We had to be careful to not even hint at future plans, games we were in, anime we were planning to marathon, lest he show up. Our sole interaction because a surreptitious attempt to ditch him until he was actually gone.
Does that seem cruel? Mean? Probably. But the simple truth was that he didn't jive with us. There was no way we would ever be comfortable around him. We didn't have shared common ground beyond a superficial mutual enjoyment of "anime" in the most general sense. He was unpleasant to be around, and we simply didn't want to be his friend. He was boring (to us), unattractive (to us), smelly (objectively), and really liked violent hentai. He was an extreme example, almost a living stereotype. But even if he had simply been incompatible socially and nothing more, he would have been one person (among millions) with whom I just didn't have any interested in friendship;
Being kind and putting up with him just lead to deeper resentment and cemented in his head the idea that we were his friends. He mistook charity and pity for friendship. (This is something I've struggled with my entire life). He latched onto us because we treated him like a human being rather than being openly hostile (like most other people were with him). He did not (or would not) see social cues that we didn't want to see him. He did not respond to fairly direct attempts to tell him he wasn't invited to something.
Eventually, we had to tell him directly that he wasn't welcome. (TheWhaleShark took this one for the team. We've described that awkward 20 minutes in detail several times in the past). It was only an act of outright hostility that drove him away. There was no way to disengage from the unwelcome engagement that did not cause real pain.
I take great pains to not hurt people. But simultaneously no one has a right to my time or my friendship. No one is entitled to monopolize my "social receptors." I choose to be friends with some people, but not others. I am under no obligation to be friends with a particular person. If I let all strangers rely on me for their personal happiness, I will never have a moment's rest or comfort.
You can see how one "that guy" drove an entire social circle (the FRC) underground, off the RADAR. One dude at a relatively small and isolated campus of 12,000 people was unavoidable. One single, solitary dude.
I think it would take a truly exceptional and patient person to fix one of those folks who wasn't internally primed for it already. It's a sad situation. I'll never have close friends for as long as I live. I'm just not wired for it. At least now, though, I can generally be at ease in most groups without sticking out like a sore thumb.
When Rochelle mentioned how chill Matt's baby was, for example, my overriding and powerful impulse was to reply with how awesome my 3 year old is, even though that would be a total non-sequitur. "That guy" has conversational instincts that are all wrong, and wants to steer the topic to himself because in his head, that's like hot-wiring his inclusion into the group. He's been "out" for so long and so desperate to be "in" that he's no longer got the patience to let it happen organically, which is tragically the only way it's ever gonna happen.
Yes, there's some irony in this post. ;-)