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2016 Presidential Election

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  • muppet said:

    It's too late for compromise.

    muppet said:


    I think it's as far to the left as we can reasonably push American politics in the next election.

    I rest my case.
  • Greg said:

    muppet said:

    It's too late for compromise.

    muppet said:


    I think it's as far to the left as we can reasonably push American politics in the next election.

    I rest my case.
    I know you're a big fan of semantics, but no. :)
  • Care to elaborate?
  • The funny part is Muppet assumes a lot of the people arguing here don't like Bernie sanders. Rym is probably voting Sanders in the Primary. I like Bernie Sanders as a senator but I don't like how he seems unprepared for foreign policy questions in debates and tends to change the subject to the two topics he always talks about and says the same thing EVERY time.

    And as Greg asked, Clinton and Sanders are not that far from each other position wise..

    We just have difficulty with muppets argument that if Bernie doesn't win the primary that you should vote for Trump or write-in someone.
  • I retook that political stance quiz and scored 80 % Bernie and 79% Hillary. Still writing in because any candidate that has a shot in the dark of getting the nomination has my bitter enmity, but I guess that helps the idea they're not so different. Completely anecdotal.
  • Jack you've come so far :-p
  • There is an existing power structure. Use it.

    A stronger Democratic party means more leeway for further left candidates within the party. A weaker Republican party means that you can put increasingly progressive ideals forward as a candidate and still take the general election.

    Unless every one of you (in the US) votes in a party primary, you're basically a political nonentity.
  • I'll probably vote Sanders in the primary, as well, although I have strongly mixed feelings about both candidates. My presidential vote will be absentee, so..
  • I still want Trump to be a Democrat sleeper agent.
  • Cremlian said:

    Jack you've come so far :-p

    76% Huckabee.
  • edited December 2015
    95% Bernie
    89% Hillary

    That second part bums me out but what are you gonna do?
    Post edited by Dromaro on
  • Not sure what bums you out? that only 6 percent difference between your first and second choice or that Hillary was so high for you?
  • Hillary being so high. She is so fake. It really irritates me. The way she carries herself, the way she talks, all of it. Being so full of shit, I'm also sure she doesn't actually believe what she says but walks a line to get voters.

    #hatergonnahate
  • I'm not going to say every politician is fake. There are the Frankens, Warrens, and Sanderses of the world. What I will say is that I'm not sure any President hasn't been fake since Jackson. Lincoln campaigned as a free soiler to look more moderate and acceptable to the secessionist south. Social Security was a platform that got the American socialist movement a lot of traction in the Depression, so FDR lifted it and added it to his agenda to win them over. I could see a good argument that Reagan was genuine, but I doubt there are many of his supporters on this forum. If you're looking for honest politicians, the Presidency is not where you'll find them.
  • edited December 2015
    I studied political history a lot in my spare time as a youth (that kind of nerd), so I'm aware of what you've said. I will add on to that that there are degrees. My bullshit-o-meter goes off the fucking scale when Hillary is involved. My distain for her runs all the way back to her public handling of the whole Lewinski debacle.
    Post edited by Dromaro on
  • Maybe it's my youth. I really only know her as a Secretary of State who I really didn't like. I haven't watched her handle domestic policy like the rest of you have.
  • edited December 2015
    muppet said:

    I have no doubt that there's a person or five here who could "beat" me with their life stories

    Stop right there - that's why I'm telling you. It's not about beating anyone. It's about not being an asshole and trying to wield your own trauma like a bludgeon, ignorant of the fact that you're not the only one hurting.

    It's not about a pissing match, it's about not being a titanic arse. If you want to make an arse of yourself, I'm not going to stop you - but you have been warned about how it will likely go down.
    Cremlian said:

    The funny part is Muppet assumes a lot of the people arguing here don't like Bernie sanders. Rym is probably voting Sanders in the Primary. I like Bernie Sanders as a senator but I don't like how he seems unprepared for foreign policy questions in debates and tends to change the subject to the two topics he always talks about and says the same thing EVERY time.

    I know I'd vote for Sanders in the primary, if I had the option. I'm just realistic about his chances, and if he doesn't win, I wouldn't have any problem with voting for Hillary, again, if given the option. Hey, let's face it - if politics as a whole had a motto, it's a shrug followed by "Not perfect, but you take what you can get."

    I like Sanders just fine - it's just that I've found most of his fan-base to be hair-trigger reactionary, super obsessive, and kinda creepy because of it. Like a left-wing, candidate focused version of Gamergate.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • I've actually started to turn on Sanders. He's not right for this time. Under Nixon or Carter or Reagan he could have made real progress, but in the modern political climate he can't actually do anything. The fastest way to get change is an insurgency of realpolitikers in the GOP. No leftist can do a damn thing if Congress stays like it is.
  • I would vote Burnie Sanders in the primary in spite of the fact that I'm certain his protectionist policies would do more damage than his good policies would have (due to the powers of the POTUS) basically just to +1 his views. If I were American.
  • Churba said:

    I like Sanders just fine - it's just that I've found most of his fan-base to be hair-trigger reactionary, super obsessive, and kinda creepy because of it. Like a left-wing, candidate focused version of Gamergate.

    I agree. And while not liking Clinton does not automatically make someone sexist... there some noticeably sexist Sanders' supporters.
    image
  • edited December 2015

    I agree. And while not liking Clinton does not automatically make someone sexist... there some noticeably sexist Sanders' supporters.

    I haven't personally seen it, but I don't doubt it exists, not in the slightest. I recall quite a bit of his fanbase, right after the two black women interrupted his speech, blending together a heady mix of crowing about his record on rights, and making some pretty fucking racist attacks on Black Lives Matter. Not my name for it, but certainly a favorite - it became the "All lives matter, if they vote sanders" movement.
    Post edited by Churba on
  • I would vote Burnie Sanders in the primary in spite of the fact that I'm certain his protectionist policies would do more damage than his good policies would have (due to the powers of the POTUS) basically just to +1 his views. If I were American.

    Hey this is actually my reasons :-p
  • I'm certainly not as deeply involved in following this upcoming election as many people here, but I get the feeling that the things that Sanders is most passionate about don't exactly line up with what he would have control over as president. And the things that he seems more questionable/less experienced about (ie foreign policy) are the things that he would occupy a large percentage of his time as president.

    That said, is the presidency the best place for Sanders? Do you think that he would be more effective in making the changes that he's been preaching as a leader of (a more receptive) Senate? I legitimately don't know where within the government he would best be able to act on his goals, so I'd like to hear some more thoughts. (Of course this is all assuming that he can put forth any ideas at all without getting stonewalled).

    With all of that said, I'd like to see him and his ideas get as much attention and credibility as possible. Naturally I'm going D in the general, regardless of who wins. But I'm pretty torn on my decisions for the primary, and I'm trying to approach it with game theory in mind. I live in New Hampshire, so if Bernie is going to win any states, mine is probably the second most likely of any of them for him to win. So I figure that if he does win the state, he won't need my help to do it. Therefore, I'm considering pitching my primary vote at John Kasich. I know he has zero chance of moving the needle anywhere, but I'm wondering if my primary vote would mean the most by backing a moderate Republican.
  • I deeply disrespect Lindsay Graham as a force of regression in the United States.

    But I respect him deeply for his reaction to Trump last night and today.
  • Rym said:

    I deeply disrespect Lindsay Graham as a force of regression in the United States.

    But I respect him deeply for his reaction to Trump last night and today.

    At this point, what has he got to lose speaking out against Trump the way he is? His presidential bid is pretty much dead, and at least by speaking out, he's getting some media attention, whether his feelings are genuine or not.
  • Cruz barely spoke out. He re-iterated that he'll keep Syrian refugees out when asked about Trump's statement.
  • At this point I get all my Trump news from Trumpweb updates. New favorite: Donald "I promise I will never be in a bicycle race" Trump. Like, what brought that up?
  • Basically all of the feasible GOP candidates condemned Trump to some degree over this, but still stated clearly that they would support him if he wins the primary.
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