The USA is not friendly toward the man sarong. "Women's cloth!" they declare! Fie on those assholes. Every day of my life I shall proudly declare the validity of my tropical brothers' attire!
Srsly, though, I was once called a "faggot" by a girl for defending guys that wear sarongs. Not cool.
I want to buy a Utilikilt...why must the cheapest one be $150?!
It's called price gouging, it's how you get rich.
Especially when they cost a few bucks per kilt at most in materiel and labor. Polly cotton isn't the most expensive fabric in the world, when you're buying bulk, and the labor to make a kilt is pretty small.
As a person who actually makes things with fabric and knows how long it takes to sew them, even if you are mass producing, I am pretty confident you are underestimating the cost per kilt. There is more fabric in there than you think, and a lot goes into design and production that you don't see on the customer end.
Plus, these are made in the USA. Price your labor accordingly.
As a person who actually makes things with fabric and knows how long it takes to sew them, even if you are mass producing, I am pretty confident you are underestimating the cost per kilt. There is more fabric in there than you think, and a lot goes into design and production that you don't see on the customer end.
Plus, these are made in the USA. Price your labor accordingly.
If I am, it's not because I don't know about mass clothing production. But certainly, I might be off with US labor prices, and the cost of poly in the states, though I doubt it would be far off. Assuming they're buying in large quantities, that is, I don't know how much it'd cost from a fabric store as opposed to a wholesaler.
Aren't they also high quality as in they will definitely last a very long time? I would gladly pay $100 for a pair a jeans that fit perfectly and will last many years.
The cloth wouldn't be the major cost. The major cost is the labor. Utilikilts have a lot of seams, lining, pockets, etc. No matter how cheap your materials are because of bulk purchasing, you still have to sew every seam. That takes time, even though you can get it pared down to a very efficient process. They also come with a construction guarantee (outside normal wear and tear).
People are used to paying cheap prices for things because they are produced in China where people get paid $2 a day. In the US, minimum wage is just below $8/hour. Skilled craftsmen should be charging more, though it is often something like $10 - 15 an hour, and that is still way cheap. For retail, you are supposed to mark it up past your material and labor costs. What about the time it took to develop the designs? The prices they pay for booth fees and travel to shows?
People have to pay for their expenses. Before you dig into someone for their pricing, think of all the costs they have to cover plus allow for a little bit of actual profit. Anyway, clearly the market will bear the current pricing scheme, so they are doing just fine.
So, I'd have to adjust down for labor, not up - the absolute minimum wage for a worker under the textiles award is 15 bucks an hour, here, and that's a green-as-grass trainee. The minimum for an experienced worker would be $17 an hour, but you're more likely to be making 20-odd an hour. The workers in our shop make more than $20 an hour, but we pay well for good workers, and they're all quite experienced by now. The Design work would be long paid off by now, and I refuse to speculate on their marketing costs, but I have no doubt they're hurting for money on that score, considering the volume they would likely do, since their product name is essentially THE name in modern kilts.
As much as I appreciate you going to the effort to teach me something about business and textiles, Nuri, and I know you don't mean anything negative by it, I don't really need a lesson in business, let alone the family business. I respect your knowledge, and if I'm seeking advice on how to make things with fabric, you're among my first choices, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, here.
Well, I doubt they're charging the minimum for their labor. AFAIK, they don't really do marketing, so I didn't include that. Unless you include physical appearances at shows to be marketing.
At any rate, I get kinda pissed when I see people complaining about the price of things, particularly handmade luxury goods (as in, not necessities) that are priced appropriately given the producer's needs. If you don't like the pricing, you don't have to buy it. The maker is the one who knows exactly what the materials costs and what work he/she put into it. Even if you do understand the costs of doing business, by making those kinds of comments offhand, you perpetuate the sense of "things are super cheap to produce" that so many Americans have.
I get that it might not be the norm view in your country, but here there is very much a Wal-Mart mentality.
A crafter who has quit producing entire genres of items for anything other than personal use because people wont pay what it is worth in my time. You want me to spend 10 hours on making you something for the cost of material? Fuck you.
I know Churba is not that guy. It's just that his comment is the kind that would encourage that guy.
Well, I doubt they're charging the minimum for their labor. AFAIK, they don't really do marketing, so I didn't include that. Unless you include physical appearances at shows to be marketing.
I didn't think they did much on that front, certainly nothing I've noticed, I thought it was all word of mouth and the odd booth at a con, too. I was wondering where you were going with that, but I figured you knew something I didn't, since they're more likely to advertise generally there, rather than here.
At any rate, I get kinda pissed when I see people complaining about the price of things, particularly handmade luxury goods (as in, not necessities) that are priced appropriately given the producer's needs. If you don't like the pricing, you don't have to buy it. The maker is the one who knows exactly what the materials costs and what work he/she put into it. Even if you do understand the costs of doing business, by making those kinds of comments offhand, you perpetuate the sense of "things are super cheap to produce" that so many Americans have.
That's a fair viewpoint to hold - and I suppose I could have put it better. While there is doubtless a fair bit of cream built into every garment now, I doubt there was at first(since being around this long, if they've not streamlined their process and improved their margins, I'd be beyond stunned), and I don't doubt their build quality. Also, it's not like I'm adverse to charging what the market will bear, I've got at least one product line right this moment that's a few hundred percent profit, though that's not clothing, and clothing isn't quite THAT lucrative, in comparison, since the production costs are far higher, but now I'm off on a tangent.
I'll agree, it was ill-considered of me to say so, at least, in that manner. I should have been a little more careful about how I said it, mea culpa.
I get that it might not be the norm view in your country, but here there is very much a Wal-Mart mentality.
Yes and no. We certainly have cheap stores like Wal-mart, but down here, if you're buying from stores like that, you expect it to be cheap and and a bit dodgy. Conversely, if you're buying from a larger store, you expect it to be a mid-level price, and of reasonable quality. Good workmanship garners great appreciation, and is almost always well paid for, along with nobody grumbling about it.
If someone buys a cheap shirt from target and the like, they might note that sort of thing if the price is too outrageous, but not buying from someone smaller like utilikilt, assuming they were sold locally. Despite loving a bargain We've got a lot of respect and love for well-made goods - as if in some small way, the sort of appreciation you used to see back in the 30s-50s never left us - and little regard for the cheap and shoddy. I suppose you could say that we've got a very, very strong expectation to get what we pay for, and quality is something we're happy to pay for.
So, I'd have to adjust down for labor, not up - the absolute minimum wage for a worker under the textiles award is 15 bucks an hour, here, and that's a green-as-grass trainee. The minimum for an experienced worker would be $17 an hour, but you're more likely to be making 20-odd an hour. The workers in our shop make more than $20 an hour, but we pay well for good workers, and they're all quite experienced by now. The Design work would be long paid off by now, and I refuse to speculate on their marketing costs, but I have no doubt they're hurting for money on that score, considering the volume they would likely do, since their product name is essentially THE name in modern kilts.
As much as I appreciate you going to the effort to teach me something about business and textiles, Nuri, and I know you don't mean anything negative by it, I don't really need a lesson in business, let alone the family business. I respect your knowledge, and if I'm seeking advice on how to make things with fabric, you're among my first choices, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, here.
The Workman kilt is made with 12 oz. cotton duck cloth. A quick Googling gives me US prices at $6 - $9.25/yard for that fabric. I don't know how much it takes to make a kilt, but according to this link:
It can take about 4 yards for a hip measurement of 42. So the fabric might not be the most expensive part of the process, but it's certainly not cheap, either.
Add in to that the labor in crafting, overheard, marketing, and so on, and $150 really isn't that unreasonable. Somewhat inflated? Probably. But it's probably not a really huge markup.
The Workman kilt is made with 12 oz. cotton duck cloth. A quick Googling gives me US prices at $6 - $9.25/yard for that fabric. I don't know how much it takes to make a kilt.
Little bit more than I expected. I'd have to grab the shop keys and walk over to check to give you accurate prices for the same number eight duck canvas, and I'm not going to name figures without doing so. Though I think we have a roll or two in the shop, not entirely sure, I didn't do the last few stocktakes of the stuff, but we don't use it TOO often.
That said, I say the same thing I said to Nuri, Not telling me anything I don't know, Pete. Except I didn't call her Pete.
Friend had a drug-educed seizure. I was the only one around who knew him when it happened (though I was in public, so plenty of people were able to help me). He's stable now, but he's being sent to a sanatorium. This on the tails of another friend being sent to day treatment. Why does this shit keep happening to/around me?
Seizures can be scary shit. For me, the hardest part of a friend having a seizure in public is fending off the hordes of idiots that want to shove a spoon in her mouth or whatever the fuck.
(Correct steps to follow: 1) Chill out, 2) Cushion their head with a pillow, jacket, or your lap, 3) Clear the area from anything they might hit, 3) DO NOT FUCKING PUT ANYTHING IN THEIR MOUTH, 4) Call 911 unless otherwise instructed)
Go into my closet this morning to find that the floor is squishy and wet in a large area. I'm pretty sure it's from water coming in due to rain, so I went out and filled in some holes in the bricks myself. If it's going to rain more today, I don't want my closet floor to become a marshland.
Came home from work to find out that my roommate's girlfriend went off the handle, kicked a large hole in the door of his room, smashed a bunch of glass bottles, broke my vacuum, and peed on the living room floor. She had always been abusive to him (she's given him black eyes and stabbed him on several occasions), but she never damaged anything of mine before. I'm glad I was at work because I probably would have shot the crazy bitch if I'd have witnessed the event.
Comments
Srsly, though, I was once called a "faggot" by a girl for defending guys that wear sarongs. Not cool.
Plus, these are made in the USA. Price your labor accordingly.
People are used to paying cheap prices for things because they are produced in China where people get paid $2 a day. In the US, minimum wage is just below $8/hour. Skilled craftsmen should be charging more, though it is often something like $10 - 15 an hour, and that is still way cheap. For retail, you are supposed to mark it up past your material and labor costs. What about the time it took to develop the designs? The prices they pay for booth fees and travel to shows?
People have to pay for their expenses. Before you dig into someone for their pricing, think of all the costs they have to cover plus allow for a little bit of actual profit. Anyway, clearly the market will bear the current pricing scheme, so they are doing just fine.
As much as I appreciate you going to the effort to teach me something about business and textiles, Nuri, and I know you don't mean anything negative by it, I don't really need a lesson in business, let alone the family business. I respect your knowledge, and if I'm seeking advice on how to make things with fabric, you're among my first choices, but you're not telling me anything I don't know, here.
At any rate, I get kinda pissed when I see people complaining about the price of things, particularly handmade luxury goods (as in, not necessities) that are priced appropriately given the producer's needs. If you don't like the pricing, you don't have to buy it. The maker is the one who knows exactly what the materials costs and what work he/she put into it. Even if you do understand the costs of doing business, by making those kinds of comments offhand, you perpetuate the sense of "things are super cheap to produce" that so many Americans have.
I get that it might not be the norm view in your country, but here there is very much a Wal-Mart mentality.
I know Churba is not that guy. It's just that his comment is the kind that would encourage that guy.
I'll agree, it was ill-considered of me to say so, at least, in that manner. I should have been a little more careful about how I said it, mea culpa. Yes and no. We certainly have cheap stores like Wal-mart, but down here, if you're buying from stores like that, you expect it to be cheap and and a bit dodgy. Conversely, if you're buying from a larger store, you expect it to be a mid-level price, and of reasonable quality. Good workmanship garners great appreciation, and is almost always well paid for, along with nobody grumbling about it.
If someone buys a cheap shirt from target and the like, they might note that sort of thing if the price is too outrageous, but not buying from someone smaller like utilikilt, assuming they were sold locally. Despite loving a bargain We've got a lot of respect and love for well-made goods - as if in some small way, the sort of appreciation you used to see back in the 30s-50s never left us - and little regard for the cheap and shoddy. I suppose you could say that we've got a very, very strong expectation to get what we pay for, and quality is something we're happy to pay for.
http://www.scottishdance.net/highland/MakingKilt.html
It can take about 4 yards for a hip measurement of 42. So the fabric might not be the most expensive part of the process, but it's certainly not cheap, either.
Add in to that the labor in crafting, overheard, marketing, and so on, and $150 really isn't that unreasonable. Somewhat inflated? Probably. But it's probably not a really huge markup.
That said, I say the same thing I said to Nuri, Not telling me anything I don't know, Pete. Except I didn't call her Pete.
ETA: also, price of cotton has gone up lately.
...also Jason Segel....
(Correct steps to follow: 1) Chill out, 2) Cushion their head with a pillow, jacket, or your lap, 3) Clear the area from anything they might hit, 3) DO NOT FUCKING PUT ANYTHING IN THEIR MOUTH, 4) Call 911 unless otherwise instructed)