I see a large amount of this sort of thing as parents deciding what offends their kids FOR them. The list of what children cannot possibly handle only grows every year. The word "egghead" to describe Twilight in one episode was a point of contention. Who knows how many people it could offend? What do we do?
This kind of censorship does not prevent kids from being dicks to each other. All it does is lead us further down the road of providing entertainment to them that treats them like idiots. Yes I know this example isn't a huge or drastic one, but the whole issue is something I feel very strongly about.
I see a large amount of this sort of thing as parents deciding what offends their kids FOR them. The list of what children cannot possibly handle only grows every year. The word "egghead" to describe Twilight in one episode was a point of contention. Who knows how many people it could offend? What do we do?
This kind of censorship does not prevent kids from being dicks to each other. All it does is lead us further down the road of providing entertainment to them that treats them like idiots. Yes I know this example isn't a huge or drastic one, but the whole issue is something I feel very strongly about.
I did assume that that screencap was posted, and was happy that Hasbro was appearing to apologize, but was worried that they were apologizing for the wrong thing: Derpy's name was not the problem, but her portrayal in that episode was.
Optimally, we offend nobody, or at the very least put up trigger warnings for groups that might be offended. But that's a long way off, due to the contention that being politically correct infringes on free speech rights, because you're no longer allowed to refer to traditionally underprivileged groups in the offensive/insulting ways you've become used to.
The real problem with the episode was that the Derpy scene encapsulated the idea "look, this pegasus has a lazy eye, and she's also slow and clumsy." She never did something redeeming, or something to give her a sympathetic viewpoint. Instead, she is passed off as someone for the children to laugh at, and that is simply not okay. Are my problems with the scene clearer now?
I just... have you guys been watching cartoons for the past several decades? Characters like this are not new. They are not radical. They are not a sign of darker times in human relations. They do not represent a class, race, religion, or group. They are not MEANT to be realistic, they are cartoon characters.
The real problem with the episode was that the Derpy scene encapsulated the idea "look, this pegasus has a lazy eye, and she's also slow and clumsy." She never did something redeeming, or something to give her a sympathetic viewpoint. Instead, she is passed off as someone for the children to laugh at, and that is simply not okay.
Simply not okay? Why? Seriously, why? Getting kids to laugh is what a character like Derpy is SUPPOSED to do. She's not there to represent the kids with lazy-eye, or the clumsy kids, or the kids with MR. Her eyes are something you only SEE in a cartoon. She doesn't behave or speak like someone with MR actually does. She is completely unrealistic, because she is a cartoon
Goofy is not there in Disney cartoons for us to identify with or use as an avatar for a certain aspect of society. He is there so we can watch him be stupid and clumsy and fuck up at everything he tries, because it's funny - because it DOESN'T happen in real life. If we wanted someone to relate to, we had Mickey. Yeah, pretty shallow choice, but that's beside the point. In this case we have Twilight and the other 5 - not Twilight and every single side character that ever gets a spoken line.
I'm sorry, it is still just unfathomable to me that people are attacking this aspect of the show. No, we really can't have nice things anymore. Not everything is a personal affront or insensitivity - some things are actually there for no other reason than to be funny, and there is nothing wrong with that. We have ourselves a good show when everyone just watches and has fun. That's why we started watching, and that's why we're still here talking.
Again, double edged sword for a cartoon becoming a sensation among older aged audiences in this day and age, (more of a western thing really), some of the old cartoons from Disney ie the Silly Symphonies will no doubt cause some sensation :P
Although i understand the reverse where because it is an older audience that things are taken more seriously and things are expected to follow some form of nomenclature. The show also promotes and grows its own world and fantasy to a large degree, encouraging such forms of seriousness by its fans. Goofy was a cartoon character sure, but the world he inhabited was not in anyway developed, nor interacted and personalized to such an extent as MLPFIM, by fans.
Also time period, im sure there were people who were real mad about goofy's portrayal, but of course, there was no internet to be butthurt on back then
Forgive my sperging, but Hasbro seems to have gotten worse about their MLP toys. The first Celestia was a light-ish pink that could pass for white in the right light I suppose, but now their latest Celestia toy is Pinkie Pie-pink. What the hell?
I just... have you guys been watching cartoons for the past several decades? Characters like this are not new.
Are you seriously arguing that "we've been doing it for a long time and haven't had any problems, so why do you object now"? Just because we've done something offensive before does not give an excuse to continue doing so now.
They do not represent a class, race, religion, or group. They are not MEANT to be realistic, they are cartoon characters.
They certainly can represent a group - being a cartoon does not exclude them from that, and does not excuse them from being offensive. Or are you going to tell me that the buffalo were not supposed to be representative of past interactions with Native Americans?
Simply not okay? Why? Seriously, why? Getting kids to laugh is what a character like Derpy is SUPPOSED to do.
You've missed my point entirely. Slapstick has its place. But the fact that Derpy was the ONLY pony screwing up in that scene, and moreover that being clumsy, stupid-sounding, and lazy-eyed was the only activity Derpy was shown to be doing, makes her into a flat character, whose schtick is "oh, look how clumsy and stupid that lazy-eyed pegasus is!" Now a lazy eye becomes something to laugh at, not to sympathize with.
She's not there to represent the kids with lazy-eye, or the clumsy kids, or the kids with MR. Her eyes are something you only SEE in a cartoon. She doesn't behave or speak like someone with MR actually does. She is completely unrealistic, because she is a cartoon
Who says she isn't supposed to be representational? You act like the fact that the show is a cartoon makes it impossible to draw parallels between characters in the show and real life. If the portrayal of Derpy is sufficient for a number of people to draw the conclusion that she is analogous to someone with a mild learning disability, who are you to say that they're wrong?
I'm sorry, it is still just unfathomable to me that people are attacking this aspect of the show. No, we really can't have nice things anymore. Not everything is a personal affront or insensitivity - some things are actually there for no other reason than to be funny, and there is nothing wrong with that. We have ourselves a good show when everyone just watches and has fun. That's why we started watching, and that's why we're still here talking.
But not everyone had fun, which is wherein the problem lies. I was irked at the Derpy scene, and a number of my friends were very offended. You say not everything is insensitivity, which is true, but in this case it was. It may have been intended to be just a bit of fun, but the writers ended up making a walking, talking ableist punchline where there was supposed to be a bit of silliness, and there is, in fact, a problem with that. And saying someone "can't take a joke" is the last refuge of the insensitive, as you complain about how it's not fair that some people have different experiences than you, and in fact dislike it when you make light of the very real problems many people face.
This truly is why we can't have nice things anymore.
Just listen to yourself. Listen to how complicated you and another small percentage of fans have made the behavior of a My Little Pony character.
Are you seriously arguing that "we've been doing it for a long time and haven't had any problems, so why do you object now"?
Yes, I am, because it actually has a place here and is not by default a defunct argument.
They certainly can represent a group - being a cartoon does not exclude them from that, and does not excuse them from being offensive. Or are you going to tell me that the buffalo were not supposed to be representative of past interactions with Native Americans?
Just because they can doesn't mean that they inevitably do. Just because some species in the Star Trek universe deliberately parallel races of the earth doesn't mean that I should interpret the Ferengi as the "Space Jews" and start petitioning to have the second series removed from the air.
Lifecircle is absolutely right; this is just one of the prices we pay for getting adults so intimately involved in a children's cartoon.
This entire debacle is idiotic. If everyone is so concerned about people with MR, then they should donate all of the effort that they put into writing angry letters and attempting to censor a 24 minute children's cartoon into actually being proactive toward the community, and helping them where they actually need it. Volunteer at programs or education centers, find out more about actually providing better educational or social facilities for them, donate to foundations or research. You know, taking steps that might actually be less convenient than sitting at a keyboard and bitching.
We could do that, but let's not. Let's just concentrate our efforts on My Little Pony. Let's make sure that writers and other creative contributors for shows like this grow even more afraid of taking freedoms in expression or humor. Let's contribute to making the appearance of another show of MLP's caliber for its particular demographic that much less likely.
This lunacy has already made me angry enough. I'm a lesbian Jew with a family full of controversial problems and a girlfriend who works very closely with MR clients; we have a million things we could be and are offended over, but this is just -stupid-. The last thing I'm going to tolerate is being accused of insensitivity on top of all this over a pony cartoon. I'm done, man. I'll be back here when we're back to enjoying all of this.
Justin (Linkigi), your argument is...Nonsensical at best. You're being ridiculous. Derpy is not insulting. MLP is a children's cartoon. The fact is, having a lazy eye is not something to be laughed at, but it's certainly not a positive. I had corrective surgery on one as a child. Everyone on the internet has treated her as clumsy and, well, derpy. Sometimes someone with a lazy eye might be clumsy or make mistakes. You saw her in one scene being clumsy. This shitstorm is...Dumb. She hasn't changed the outlook of any kids watching MLP, because they're aren't noticing that. They're just laughing at the antics of someone being silly and making mistakes. The cartoons we loved as kids did the same thing. It's funny to watch stupid people make mistakes. The fact is, you've taken this argument way too far.
The studio and Jason the director probably knew the sort of pandora box putting Derpy into the actual show would open, or maybe they don't and the whole thing was a mistake. Regardless of the case, Derpy is a keystone of the adult audience to a large degree, if only as a direct personification of the fandom within the actual canon. I had believed that if they ever put in Derpy, the fandom would fracture over ideological and individual difference, and in a way it has.
But this is to be expected, as this is a new and daring thing to do. Consequences would arise, but regardless, the fandom and the creators has to make a decision to accept the canon or dont.
When i saw that scene, i admit i was annoyed for a brief moment at how they made Derpy sound, but it was quickly replaced by the pride and satisfaction of how a fandom character has been embraced by the canon. A cartoon is a cartoon, and loltsundere is correct on that. If this was any other cartoon, there would be no uproar, hell, if this was any other character like bonbon, one which did not had as much personal stake for the fandom as Derpy, this would not had happened. People need to be able to displace reality from the reel when time calls for it, and this is that time.
Yeah, I gave up on that discussion ages ago. Some people are going to be annoyed/offended/whatever, and some are not. Everybody takes things in the context of their own lives. Every kid is different, and grouping them all together by saying what "kids" will or will not do in reaction to a cartoon is dumb. Arguing about whether it is or is not offensive is dumb too. Anyone who is not offended will think everyone else should see it the same way.
tl;dr - watch the South Park episode "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson"
Comments
Unless you're just being bullshitted by 4chan?
I see a large amount of this sort of thing as parents deciding what offends their kids FOR them. The list of what children cannot possibly handle only grows every year. The word "egghead" to describe Twilight in one episode was a point of contention. Who knows how many people it could offend? What do we do?
This kind of censorship does not prevent kids from being dicks to each other. All it does is lead us further down the road of providing entertainment to them that treats them like idiots. Yes I know this example isn't a huge or drastic one, but the whole issue is something I feel very strongly about.
Link
Optimally, we offend nobody, or at the very least put up trigger warnings for groups that might be offended. But that's a long way off, due to the contention that being politically correct infringes on free speech rights, because you're no longer allowed to refer to traditionally underprivileged groups in the offensive/insulting ways you've become used to.
The real problem with the episode was that the Derpy scene encapsulated the idea "look, this pegasus has a lazy eye, and she's also slow and clumsy." She never did something redeeming, or something to give her a sympathetic viewpoint. Instead, she is passed off as someone for the children to laugh at, and that is simply not okay.
Are my problems with the scene clearer now?
Goofy is not there in Disney cartoons for us to identify with or use as an avatar for a certain aspect of society. He is there so we can watch him be stupid and clumsy and fuck up at everything he tries, because it's funny - because it DOESN'T happen in real life. If we wanted someone to relate to, we had Mickey. Yeah, pretty shallow choice, but that's beside the point. In this case we have Twilight and the other 5 - not Twilight and every single side character that ever gets a spoken line.
I'm sorry, it is still just unfathomable to me that people are attacking this aspect of the show. No, we really can't have nice things anymore. Not everything is a personal affront or insensitivity - some things are actually there for no other reason than to be funny, and there is nothing wrong with that. We have ourselves a good show when everyone just watches and has fun. That's why we started watching, and that's why we're still here talking.
Although i understand the reverse where because it is an older audience that things are taken more seriously and things are expected to follow some form of nomenclature. The show also promotes and grows its own world and fantasy to a large degree, encouraging such forms of seriousness by its fans. Goofy was a cartoon character sure, but the world he inhabited was not in anyway developed, nor interacted and personalized to such an extent as MLPFIM, by fans.
Also time period, im sure there were people who were real mad about goofy's portrayal, but of course, there was no internet to be butthurt on back then
And saying someone "can't take a joke" is the last refuge of the insensitive, as you complain about how it's not fair that some people have different experiences than you, and in fact dislike it when you make light of the very real problems many people face.
This truly is why we can't have nice things anymore.
Lifecircle is absolutely right; this is just one of the prices we pay for getting adults so intimately involved in a children's cartoon.
This entire debacle is idiotic. If everyone is so concerned about people with MR, then they should donate all of the effort that they put into writing angry letters and attempting to censor a 24 minute children's cartoon into actually being proactive toward the community, and helping them where they actually need it. Volunteer at programs or education centers, find out more about actually providing better educational or social facilities for them, donate to foundations or research. You know, taking steps that might actually be less convenient than sitting at a keyboard and bitching.
We could do that, but let's not. Let's just concentrate our efforts on My Little Pony. Let's make sure that writers and other creative contributors for shows like this grow even more afraid of taking freedoms in expression or humor. Let's contribute to making the appearance of another show of MLP's caliber for its particular demographic that much less likely.
This lunacy has already made me angry enough. I'm a lesbian Jew with a family full of controversial problems and a girlfriend who works very closely with MR clients; we have a million things we could be and are offended over, but this is just -stupid-. The last thing I'm going to tolerate is being accused of insensitivity on top of all this over a pony cartoon. I'm done, man. I'll be back here when we're back to enjoying all of this.
But this is to be expected, as this is a new and daring thing to do. Consequences would arise, but regardless, the fandom and the creators has to make a decision to accept the canon or dont.
When i saw that scene, i admit i was annoyed for a brief moment at how they made Derpy sound, but it was quickly replaced by the pride and satisfaction of how a fandom character has been embraced by the canon. A cartoon is a cartoon, and loltsundere is correct on that. If this was any other cartoon, there would be no uproar, hell, if this was any other character like bonbon, one which did not had as much personal stake for the fandom as Derpy, this would not had happened. People need to be able to displace reality from the reel when time calls for it, and this is that time.
tl;dr - watch the South Park episode "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson"
Don't Click If You are Easily Offended by or Distraught over 9-11
The original:
The Song:
New ponies.
Also, here is a petition to get Hasbro to not change Derpy's name/character: http://www.change.org/petitions/hasbro-studiosthe-hub-do-not-change-derpys-name#