It wasn't meant as a slight, Nuri-sama. The episode featured instrumentals whilst what I posted has minimal accompaniment. It was also meant to raise awareness that "The Rains of Castamere" is the song of House Lannister. It didn't compute for me right away as a non book reader so I had to research a wee bit to make my light bulb fully shine.
I was sort of frustrated after this episode - partly because it wasn't as surprising as it could have been (shut the fuck up, Internet - some of us haven't read/don't care to read the books) - but mostly because it really put into light that nothing fucking happens.
I mean sure, OK, stuff is happening. Technically, there are actions and consequences - but there's no real sense of something greater. There's a bunch of buildup, but all the payoff so far is banal. One guy tries to screw someone else over, only to get screwed over by this other guy, but that screwing gets interrupted...it's just a circle-jerk of people being assholes to each other. That's the real world - I don't need a TV show for that.
It's still enjoyable, but after 3 seasons, I'd like to see the story go somewhere. I've been told that there's a Big Thing in the background, but I'm really annoyed that I'm not seeing it in the foreground. It doesn't even have to be direct, but it needs to be there.
I've been told the books are even worse about it.
Also, Arya is the best Stark. Rickon is a whiny little shit.
I was sort of frustrated after this episode - partly because it wasn't as surprising as it could have been (shut the fuck up, Internet - some of us haven't read/don't care to read the books) - but mostly because it really put into light that nothing fucking happens. ...
You've hit the nail on the head.
The Prince of Nothing, I knew from book one that this was going somewhere. Every thread was interleaved, with purpose and direction, toward a story greater than any one part. Events occur, and at least seem to drive something further toward some end.
Game of Thrones is just Lost with a pseudo-political fantasy setting with high production values and better characters. It's a never-ending soap opera that happens to involve tropes nerds care about instead of tropes aimed at bored housewives and the retired.
Well Rickon is like... five and he's seen a shitload of murders and he knows at least one parent is dead and he lives in the woods and sleeps in mud so, I mean, he's probably earned a little bit of a whine.
See the thing is the big thing in the background is the least interesting part of the story. It's just the "high Fantasy BS that occurs in all fantasy". The fact that it's there but plays in the background is what makes the story and characters interesting. I'm more interested to see when a big event like last eps happens, how those shock waves move through all the plots. Some crazy stuff is going to happen and there are giant consequences of it from the "big thing" to all the subplots to Arya.
Game of Thrones is just Lost with a pseudo-political fantasy setting with high production values and better characters. It's a never-ending soap opera that happens to involve tropes nerds care about instead of tropes aimed at bored housewives and the retired.
Just like real life politics! 8D Seriously, this is a character drama. Characters are obviously the primary focus, and plot is secondary. That's why people get so pissed when characters are wantonly slaughtered.
The threads do start to come together near the very end of ADwD. We have been told the next book (the one that hasn't been released yet, yeah) has some epic battles that everything has been building toward. I hope that's true.
Also, Arya is only the best Stark because
she is No One. She is becoming an empty murder-shell.
Is the end of the roller coaster the best part or the ride? :-p
If I've already ridden the Millennium Force, then the Magnum XL 200 seems quaint in comparison.
Partly, it's that I get the impression from the books that a lot of the newer characters are boring or not as interesting as those who get offed as time goes on.
See the thing is the big thing in the background is the least interesting part of the story. It's just the "high Fantasy BS that occurs in all fantasy". The fact that it's there but plays in the background is what makes the story and characters interesting. I'm more interested to see when a big event like last eps happens, how those shock waves move through all the plots. Some crazy stuff is going to happen and there are giant consequences of it from the "big thing" to all the subplots to Arya.
I disagree entirely. Danaerys's plot line is the only one that's actually substantive, because she stands for something. She's got a goal, a big one off in the distance, and she is constantly moving towards it. She has the Driven trait.
Everyone else is just bullshit backstabbing real-world politics against a backdrop of fantasy. It sort of kills the buy-in, really. Like, there's a literal god with literal power that creates visible real-world magic - how could anyone still squabble about that? If I wanted a political show, I'd watch The West Wing again, because it's better. I watch a fantasy show because I want to see real-world politics informed by fantastical suppositions - but the plot lines in the house politics fights are so divorced from those suppositions that it's almost like a different show entirely.
The "big event" in this past episode was meaningless. I felt nothing. Maybe a bit of "Huh, didn't expect that to happen" - but I had absolutely no sense that it affected anything in the world. It affected people who were already mired in it. It's only important to an insular circle-jerk of drama.
It's like a reality TV show - there's no shock value, because all of the drama is inward and contrived.
Basically: more Khalessi, less Lannister.
EDIT: I'm also a fan of the direction that Bran and Hodor and all those folks are headed. I also get an impression that something is happening with the Lord of Light, but I'd really like to get a stronger impression there. Show me more.
EDIT II: I'm actually perfectly fine with characters being wantonly slaughtered - when used for good dramatic effect or when it's moving Big Things in the plot. Ned's death was good example of that - it motivated an entire goddamn war. Good. But the war itself didn't stand for anything bigger, and in the end it all feeds back in on itself - it doesn't expand outward. That eradicates the purpose of his death. Makes the whole thing hollow.
I suppose you could argue that's the point - and I'd buy that - but holy shit don't spend so much time making that point. Get there and then get somewhere else.
From my reading of the books I see the "big plot" is in the title of the series. It is fire vs ice, literally!
What I really want to know is the full backstory of the former empire and how it ended up so completely destroyed. There is a huge story there but we only get it in bits and pieces. It's like we are watching a Godzilla movie but all we ever see is residents of Tokyo running around in the streets.
The big Event wasn't meaningless, you just haven't seen what it does. It causes some really big waves. It's just the eps ends without showing you any of those, because it ended on an extremely tragic moment.
Also, Jamine, Tywin and Tyrion for the win. I find Danaerys stuff to be pretty run of the mill. I mean I enjoy her punking slavers but compared to other characters in the show she's not that interesting.
Jamine is the character I find the most compelling, his change from being an incestuous douche-bag who pushes little kids out of windows and slays kings to what he is now is entertaining to watch.
The big Event wasn't meaningless, you just haven't seen what it does. It causes some really big waves. It's just the eps ends without showing you any of those.
Yeah, I'm sure it causes really big waves within that circle. That's the whole point I'm making - that circle of drama is meaningless because it doesn't affect anything outside of itself.
And if it's going to, the story needs to do a much better job of connecting it to the rest of the world - because right now, you could completely excise everything attached to the Stark/Lannister feud and have a completely coherent story. That's a sign of unnecessary plot lines.
That's actually the fault of the TV show, Robb Stark in the books is Not focused on at all and is only seen when he interacts with POV characters that are important. Lady Catelyn is who you should be focusing on through all of those scenes and well.. SPOILERS.
As winter gets closer, the magic & God action escalates. Fire and Ice are in a Big Fucking War. Everything that happens in the series is part of the setup or escalation of said war. EVERYTHING. You just don't know it yet.
It's not even that Robb Stark was a focus - it's more that everyone in the entire house feud structure is fighting amongst themselves; Danaerys, the Lord of Light, the Wildlings, and Hodor are all struggling against forces outside of themselves. They're actively engaging with the fantasy world, whereas the house conflicts are divorced from that.
Basically, the Starks and Lannisters are focused on earning Persona points. The other parties are working towards Deeds points. The latter is far more interesting.
You know nothing, Pete Olsen.
As winter gets closer, the magic & God action escalates. Fire and Ice are in a Big Fucking War. Everything that happens in the series is part of the setup or escalation of said war. EVERYTHING. You just don't know it yet.
And that is all I will say on that.
That's awesome! That's what I want to see! And it really needs to start happening soon, because I'm really just done with stupid house infighting. I just don't even care. You could kill off Tyrion and I would give 0 shits. Kill off anyone in the houses - it literally won't affect me. Burn 'em all down. I can't express how uninterested I am in these conflicts - show me the parts that actually matter.
If these past 3 seasons have been setting up a massive conflict, then they really really really needed to connect that a lot earlier.
The politics are extremely shallow and simplistic as well. The pseudo-complexity is derived almost entirely from hiding character motivations from the viewer and threading effectively unrelated stories into the otherwise banal politicking.
If there are these epic events, and those are the payoff, then most of what led up to that is irrelevant. The story might as well just start at and follow that big plot, with most of the entire show to date being left as a footnote that basically would read "the houses fought amongst eachother to the detriment of all, leaving them in their current state of disarray and infighting."
The show could have started with Ned's death, and revealed the few pertinent details from the history before that point as they were needed.
This would be like if there were an entire Star Wars movie dedicated to Anakin Skywalker growing up through his early and mostly irrelevant life...
I think the problem there is that there are characters in the houses will be important to that final plot, and following a few of their stories is interesting While it is too scattered, there's enough interesting characters to keep it going for some viewers/readers. Obviously not all, and that's okay.
Also clearly Pete and I watch Game of Thrones for different reasons, though we probably agree on the Boobies...
I don't know, most of the time I appreciate them - but sometimes I'm like, "Did we really need boobs right there?"
See we agree ;-p
//Most of the time I'm like, man I gotta put up with a lot of bobbies to get my medieval political action.. Couldn't I have more Tywin insulting Tyrion scenes instead...
I've discovered that Borgias hits all the same buttons has Game of Thrones, but executes them significantly better. I highly recommend people check it out on Netflix.
See, I still think it's probably going somewhere, but the hints and signs are very sparse. If I didn't have it on the authority of people I trust that it goes somewhere eventually, I'd have given up on it.
See, I still think it's probably going somewhere, but the hints and signs are very sparse. If I didn't have it on the authority of people I trust that it goes somewhere eventually, I'd have given up on it.
Having read spoilers, I don't think it's gone much of anywhere yet...
Comments
I mean sure, OK, stuff is happening. Technically, there are actions and consequences - but there's no real sense of something greater. There's a bunch of buildup, but all the payoff so far is banal. One guy tries to screw someone else over, only to get screwed over by this other guy, but that screwing gets interrupted...it's just a circle-jerk of people being assholes to each other. That's the real world - I don't need a TV show for that.
It's still enjoyable, but after 3 seasons, I'd like to see the story go somewhere. I've been told that there's a Big Thing in the background, but I'm really annoyed that I'm not seeing it in the foreground. It doesn't even have to be direct, but it needs to be there.
I've been told the books are even worse about it.
Also, Arya is the best Stark. Rickon is a whiny little shit.
The Prince of Nothing, I knew from book one that this was going somewhere. Every thread was interleaved, with purpose and direction, toward a story greater than any one part. Events occur, and at least seem to drive something further toward some end.
Game of Thrones is just Lost with a pseudo-political fantasy setting with high production values and better characters. It's a never-ending soap opera that happens to involve tropes nerds care about instead of tropes aimed at bored housewives and the retired.
The threads do start to come together near the very end of ADwD. We have been told the next book (the one that hasn't been released yet, yeah) has some epic battles that everything has been building toward. I hope that's true.
Also, Arya is only the best Stark because
Partly, it's that I get the impression from the books that a lot of the newer characters are boring or not as interesting as those who get offed as time goes on.
Everyone else is just bullshit backstabbing real-world politics against a backdrop of fantasy. It sort of kills the buy-in, really. Like, there's a literal god with literal power that creates visible real-world magic - how could anyone still squabble about that? If I wanted a political show, I'd watch The West Wing again, because it's better. I watch a fantasy show because I want to see real-world politics informed by fantastical suppositions - but the plot lines in the house politics fights are so divorced from those suppositions that it's almost like a different show entirely.
The "big event" in this past episode was meaningless. I felt nothing. Maybe a bit of "Huh, didn't expect that to happen" - but I had absolutely no sense that it affected anything in the world. It affected people who were already mired in it. It's only important to an insular circle-jerk of drama.
It's like a reality TV show - there's no shock value, because all of the drama is inward and contrived.
Basically: more Khalessi, less Lannister.
EDIT: I'm also a fan of the direction that Bran and Hodor and all those folks are headed. I also get an impression that something is happening with the Lord of Light, but I'd really like to get a stronger impression there. Show me more.
EDIT II: I'm actually perfectly fine with characters being wantonly slaughtered - when used for good dramatic effect or when it's moving Big Things in the plot. Ned's death was good example of that - it motivated an entire goddamn war. Good. But the war itself didn't stand for anything bigger, and in the end it all feeds back in on itself - it doesn't expand outward. That eradicates the purpose of his death. Makes the whole thing hollow.
I suppose you could argue that's the point - and I'd buy that - but holy shit don't spend so much time making that point. Get there and then get somewhere else.
What I really want to know is the full backstory of the former empire and how it ended up so completely destroyed. There is a huge story there but we only get it in bits and pieces. It's like we are watching a Godzilla movie but all we ever see is residents of Tokyo running around in the streets.
Also, Jamine, Tywin and Tyrion for the win. I find Danaerys stuff to be pretty run of the mill. I mean I enjoy her punking slavers but compared to other characters in the show she's not that interesting.
Jamine is the character I find the most compelling, his change from being an incestuous douche-bag who pushes little kids out of windows and slays kings to what he is now is entertaining to watch.
And if it's going to, the story needs to do a much better job of connecting it to the rest of the world - because right now, you could completely excise everything attached to the Stark/Lannister feud and have a completely coherent story. That's a sign of unnecessary plot lines.
As winter gets closer, the magic & God action escalates. Fire and Ice are in a Big Fucking War. Everything that happens in the series is part of the setup or escalation of said war. EVERYTHING. You just don't know it yet.
And that is all I will say on that.
Basically, the Starks and Lannisters are focused on earning Persona points. The other parties are working towards Deeds points. The latter is far more interesting. That's awesome! That's what I want to see! And it really needs to start happening soon, because I'm really just done with stupid house infighting. I just don't even care. You could kill off Tyrion and I would give 0 shits. Kill off anyone in the houses - it literally won't affect me. Burn 'em all down. I can't express how uninterested I am in these conflicts - show me the parts that actually matter.
If these past 3 seasons have been setting up a massive conflict, then they really really really needed to connect that a lot earlier.
The show could have started with Ned's death, and revealed the few pertinent details from the history before that point as they were needed.
This would be like if there were an entire Star Wars movie dedicated to Anakin Skywalker growing up through his early and mostly irrelevant life...
Steve Holt!
Dude, we haven't even gotten there in the BOOKS.
//Most of the time I'm like, man I gotta put up with a lot of bobbies to get my medieval political action.. Couldn't I have more Tywin insulting Tyrion scenes instead...