Sadly, we have been forced to officially bail on Otakon 2010 as of this moment. We will announce it on the show, but we willnotbe attending in any capacity this year.
That really sucks, I was looking forward to being able to hang out with you guys for at least a little bit.
Sadly, we have been forced to officially bail on Otakon 2010 as of this moment. We will announce it on the show, but we willnotbe attending in any capacity this year.
Bleh. I'm glad I never plan to get involved in Otakon in any staff-based capacity, because this sounds like it sucks. You will be missed, Scrym, trust me.
Guys, I think we should essentially spam the con feedback session with requests for Otakon to get their shit together (you know, get the planning started earlier, do more delegation with planning). If enough people say something at the con feedback session, hopefully they will listen.
Guys, I think we should essentially spam the con feedback session with requests for Otakon to get their shit together (you know, get the planning started earlier, do more delegation with planning). If enough people say something at the con feedback session, hopefully they will listen.
Yeah, we need to get mass petitioning for badges to get mailed as well. And bug them about not informing panelists early enough.
Get as many people as you can. Go to the feedback session. Ask why they don't mail the badges. Also ask where we are. Even if they answer the question, the next person in line should ask the same questions. Keep asking. Even if they answer, repeat the question. Every person in line should ask why they don't mail the badges. Every person should ask where we are. Every person should ask where Super Art Fight is. Every person should ask where Daryl Surat's craziest deaths is. Get as many people as you can. All stand in line. All ask the same questions over and over, even if they are already answered.
Guys, I think we should essentially spam the con feedback session with requests for Otakon to get their shit together (you know, get the planning started earlier, do more delegation with planning). If enough people say something at the con feedback session, hopefully they will listen.
I think we should do more planning, but overall, the goal is to have fun.
I'm actually curious to Scrym or anyone else who has gone to Otakon more than twice. When you've asked them "Why won't you mail out badges?" what kind of response do they give to that? Is it that difficult for them?
I'm actually curious to Scrym or anyone else who has gone to Otakon more than twice. When you've asked them "Why won't you mail out badges?" what kind of response do they give to that? Is it that difficult for them?
Here are all of Otakon's reasons for not mailing the badges (that I can remember right now).
People will forge the badges ahead of time. Right now they let you select badge art. If they mail the badges, that becomes a very large logistical problem, so they will probably have to resort to a single badge art. They don't want people to transfer the badges, sell them on eBay/Craigslist, etc. What if a badge gets lost in the mail? What if some dumb kid loses their badge or leaves it at home? What if that dumb kid who lost their badge has super special syndrome? It costs too much money to mail the badges. It takes too much labor to mail the badges.
There is one legal problem that underlies this whole thing. There is a tax on all ticket sales. It's a big tax. Even though Otakon is non-profit, if they sell tickets to an event, they are subject to the tax. There is a loophole for this tax. Otakon doesn't sell tickets. They sell memberships. When you buy a badge, you are a member of Otakorp. Notice how they always refer to people as members, and the attendance as membership. The way it works is that Otakon is a private event, and only Otakorp members are permitted. That's also why they only have weekend passes, and no single-day badges anymore. If you are selling a single-day pass, is that really a membership? No, it's a ticket, so they don't do that anymore. This is why they want the badges to be non-transferrable, because that would turn the badge into a ticket instead of the membership card it is supposed to be.
To maintain revenues they would have to significantly raise the badge price if they were subject to this tax. Otakon will do anything to avoid this tax. Even so, they could still mail the badges. I joined the MoCCA, and they mailed me a membership card, no problem. They also sell tickets to the MoCCA arts festival, no problem.
To maintain revenues they would have to significantly raise the badge price if they were subject to this tax. Otakon will do anything to avoid this tax. Even so, they could still mail the badges. I joined the MoCCA, and they mailed me a membership card, no problem. They also sell tickets to the MoCCA arts festival, no problem.
Just a note it could have a lot to do with differences in Maryland law compared to New York law.
Here are my reasons Otakon should mail the badges anyway.
Make the badge difficult to forge. People get into Otakon without a badge anyway because the security is lax, not because the badge is easily forged. Make a plastic PAX-like badge, and get better security staff that actually check properly. Picking badge art is nice, but who really cares? If choosing between not waiting in line and picking which anime is on my badge, I'll skip the line. Maybe you can have a standard art, and then an even better special art that costs extra. Make some extra green.
Who cares if people resell their badges. Every ticketed event in the world has this going on. It's no problem. The only problem is if people sell fake badges, which has nothing to do with the con. It's all the failure of the security staff to actually check. Also, Otakon doesn't sell out. Nobody will be able to sell their badge for above the retail price. Scalping will not exist. Maybe some punk kids who can't afford it will get a discount buying a badge off of someone who suddenly can't attend. It will make things better, not worse.
If someone forgets their badge, loses their badge, has a fake badge, etc. Just kick them out with no mercy or exception. Plenty of people go to Major League ballparks every single day. A lot of them bring kids with super special syndrome. If they don't have a ticket, they don't get in. No exceptions. Why should Otakon be different?
PAX, NYAF, NYCC, CCI (SDCC), and many other conventions which are smaller than Otakon are all economically capable of mailing the badges. These conventions cost about the same as Otakon. If the problem is labor, then Otakon staff are just lazy. PAX and all those other cons have volunteer staffs, even if the cons are for profit, and they get it done. If Otakon can't get it done, then it's because of them sucking.
Lastly, I don't know how much the tax is, exactly, but depending on the numbers, Otakon could probably just give up on the legal loophole and pay the tax. Maybe the extra money would help Baltimore / MD suck a little bit less. Maybe a slight increase in badge price would decrease the attendance slightly, but it would get rid of punk trouble making kids.
I know this is blasphemy, but maybe Otakon could have one or two fewer expensive Japanese guests. Personally, I think they are totally awesome, and I want to see them more than anything. They are one of the things I enjoy the most about Otakon. However, there is no denying that their panels are typically poorly attended. Noburo Ishiguro's panel was simultaneously awesome and empty. Our D&D panel, not even anime related, had at least over 10x the attendance.
If Otakon really wants to force these high quality guests down the throats of the punk kids who don't want to see them, then get rid of some of the other guests. Aren't they bringing over some fashion designer this year. Seriously? I know they are probably famous and awesome, but if the cost of that can alleviate the badge mailing cost, then can it.
PAX, NYAF, NYCC, CCI (SDCC), and many other conventions which are smaller than Otakon are all economically capable of mailing the badges. These conventions cost about the same as Otakon. If the problem is labor, then Otakon staff are just lazy. PAX and all those other cons have volunteer staffs, even if the cons are for profit, and they get it done. If Otakon can't get it done, then it's because of them sucking.
They actually hire out to send out the badges... They don't use the volunteers.
They actually hire out to send out the badges... They don't use the volunteers.
Yeap. That's what I suggested internally.
For what it's worth, while I can't announce anything, we're really working hard to nail out the logistics for mailing them in the internal Otakon forums.
For what it's worth, while I can't announce anything, we're really working hard to nail out the logistics for mailing them in the internal Otakon forums.
Let me guess, they're hung up on putting people's names on them?
Let me guess, they're hung up on putting people's names on them?
No, nothing like that. In fact, I believe I've convinced them to do a trial run of some kind next year. Obviously, the current (scheduleless) Otakon takes precedence until it's passed, so the conversation is basically on hold until after the con.
Maybe the extra money would help Baltimore / MD suck a little bit less.
I have given up all hope in Baltimore
I said a little bit.
Baltimore doesn't need more money, it needs a competent leader. Seriously, the last mayor was impeached and arrested for stealing money from a charity and using it to buy XBox 360's for everyone in her family.
Maybe the extra money would help Baltimore / MD suck a little bit less.
I have given up all hope in Baltimore
I said a little bit.
Maybe the extra money would help Baltimore / MD suck a little bit less.
I have given up all hope in Baltimore
I said a little bit.
Baltimore doesn't need more money, it needs a competent leader. Seriously, the last mayor was impeached and arrested for stealing money from a charity and using it to buy XBox 360's for everyone in her family.
My family has never done anything that nice for me.
Also, to the concept of Baltimore only sucking slightly less, I am left with a mental image of only having to step over 8 homeless people on the way back to my hotel rather than 9. I have to go back for a professional conference in 2011 (was last held there in 2008), so I would be happily surprised to see this happen.
To maintain revenues they would have to significantly raise the badge price if they were subject to this tax. Otakon will do anything to avoid this tax. Even so, they could still mail the badges. I joined the MoCCA, and they mailed me a membership card, no problem. They also sell tickets to the MoCCA arts festival, no problem.
Exactly. Just mail freaking membership cards. Their badge art choices suck every year anyway. Even if they did a ticketed system instead of memberships, people would pay the extra to not have to stand in line!
...list of BS reasons why Otakon doesn't mail the badges
I started typing this up before reading Scott's post on why they should mail the badges anyway and it was pretty telling how many of the ideas crossed over. Viz:
The sad thing is, I can shoot down every one of these arguments with little thought, which just goes to show how useless their con staff is:
People will forge the badges ahead of time. - So stick something on the badge to make it copy-proof and give each badge a unique serial number. Make the badge hard plastic and credit card sized, throw a barcode or a magstripe on the back that links to the membership, and/or stick a holographic sticker on it. Problem solved.
Right now they let you select badge art. If they mail the badges, that becomes a very large logistical problem, so they will probably have to resort to a single badge art. - Waaah. If the attendees are so honked off that they don't to get to pick which of their favorite Pokemans goes on the badge then they need to suck it up and put on their big-boy underwear.
They don't want people to transfer the badges, sell them on eBay/Craigslist, etc. - A badge sold is a badge sold. If someone buys an extra one and hawks it out on eBay then what's the problem? Ticket scalping goes on in all walks of life.
What if a badge gets lost in the mail? - Send the badges registered mail w/return receipt and add that in to the badge price. Or send the badges out a couple months in advance and then post an announcement in about a month that everyone should have received their badges by now and anyone who hasn't should email the con at [lost badges email address] with proof of purchase.
What if some dumb kid loses their badge or leaves it at home? - Tough shit. Buy a new membership at the door.
What if that dumb kid who lost their badge has super special syndrome? - Tough shit. Their parent or guardian can buy a new membership at the door.
It costs too much money to mail the badges. - Tack it in to the cost of the badge. Punk Kid Attendees don't like the rising prices? Tough shit. It costs money to run the con and this is for their convenience.
It takes too much labor to mail the badges. - Hire a fulfillment company to do it.
People will forge the badges ahead of time. - So stick something on the badge to make it copy-proof and give each badge a unique serial number. Make the badge hard plastic and credit card sized, throw a barcode or a magstripe on the back that links to the membership, and/or stick a holographic sticker on it. Problem solved.
Serial numbers, magstripes, etc are all worthless. The idea is to not have to stand in lines being checked. However, a unique holographic frangible sticker on each badge would handily solve this problem. It's easy to check for the sticker when checking badges at doors; not so easy to check to see if a serial number is unique, or get equipment for swipe cards.
You think if there was a petition done at the con itself they would think about it more seriously? Perhaps getting people to show up at the ending to promote the idea. Maybe if more people understand and demand it they finally will for next year.
Serial numbers, magstripes, etc are all worthless. The idea is to not have to stand in lines being checked. However, a unique holographic frangible sticker on each badge would handily solve this problem. It's easy to check for the sticker when checking badges at doors; not so easy to check to see if a serial number is unique, or get equipment for swipe cards.
No more worthless than just a sticker. You can't have it both ways - either you have security to prevent unauthorized access and you have lines or you just throw the doors open to everyone who looks like they have a legit badge. If someone steals a legit badge from an attendee and you're only using a single point of authentication then they're getting in scot-free. Regardless of that, even if all you use is stickers someone is still going to have to stand there and look at stickers all day long, so there's still going to be a line. Magtek USB credit card swipes run about $50 a pop, can be ordered wholesale, and act as a keyboard-style USB input device. They'll pump whatever data they read right into Notepad or a custom designed app without a second blink. You can get USB-based barcode readers that do the same thing for around the same price. Set up the door guards with laptops and a swipe reader or scanner. Have attendees line up with their con badge and an ID card of some sort, swipe/scan the card, doorguard cross-checks the ID versus the name on the screen, waves them in or waves the bouncer over. I'll agree that it's not as quick as just looking at a sticker, but if you want increased security to help prevent unauthorized access it's the way to go and it stops the idea of someone using a stolen badge to get in right in its tracks.
Serial numbers, magstripes, etc are all worthless. The idea is to not have to stand in lines being checked. However, a unique holographic frangible sticker on each badge would handily solve this problem. It's easy to check for the sticker when checking badges at doors; not so easy to check to see if a serial number is unique, or get equipment for swipe cards.
It would be far better to have a plastic card with a holographic foil embedded - much harder to reproduce, and you can get places to stamp them out en-masse for you. Trust me on this, my very first business was producing badges and ID cards.
Um no... a sticker can be visually checked and takes very little time. They already have badge checks at the doors. Those do not cause lines most of the time, and are NOT the problem we are complaining about. It's the registration line that takes so long; over an hour in most cases if you are pre-registered. Anything that can be quickly checked visually is fine. They don't need increased security; they just need a way to prevent badge forgery that compares to not handing out the badges in advance.
A serial number has to be looked up in a database for it to make any kind of difference, and then how do you control entry and re-entry? You can't. The card readers require the security at the door to handle con technology (security is usually done by the convention center, so this is an issue) and it compounds the number of things that can go wrong with letting people in. At least with a sticker, it's affixed to the badge and easy to see, and you can get one custom printed and make it frangible so it can't be easily reproduced. You can show security what sticker to look for, and that's all they have to remember. Animazement did this, and it worked great. The battery can't die, and the security staff can't fuck up or steal something expensive.
Serial numbers, magstripes, etc are all worthless. The idea is to not have to stand in lines being checked. However, a unique holographic frangible sticker on each badge would handily solve this problem. It's easy to check for the sticker when checking badges at doors; not so easy to check to see if a serial number is unique, or get equipment for swipe cards.
It would be far better to have a plastic card with a holographic foil embedded - much harder to reproduce, and you can get places to stamp them out en-masse for you. Trust me on this, my very first business was producing badges and ID cards.
A foil would be even better, but might increase the cost of the badge significantly.
Anyone who has enough money to make a really good forgery of the badge with a few small security tweaks will just buy a freaking badge. We're not worried about Ocean's Eleven here... it's the punk kids with color photocopiers.
A foil would be even better, but might increase the cost of the badge significantly.
It shouldn't, if you're buying in the kind of numbers they are, you can get them for cents on the dollar - hell, you can even buy the cardstock foiled before you even put them through the printer to make the badges.
Ok you guys. Apparently Otakon actually noticed my post saying you should ask the same question over and over at the feedback session. I thought this would be necessary in order to show them how important these issues really are. I was under the assumption they just didn't get it. Much to my surprise, the convention staff have taken notice of this very thread. Therefore, enacting this plan will only hurt, not help, our cause. Still, the questions should be asked a least once each so the points are made clear, are on the record, and the room should be given a chance to cheer when you ask for the badges to be mailed.
Comments
You will be missed, Scrym, trust me.
I'm actually curious to Scrym or anyone else who has gone to Otakon more than twice. When you've asked them "Why won't you mail out badges?" what kind of response do they give to that? Is it that difficult for them?
People will forge the badges ahead of time.
Right now they let you select badge art. If they mail the badges, that becomes a very large logistical problem, so they will probably have to resort to a single badge art.
They don't want people to transfer the badges, sell them on eBay/Craigslist, etc.
What if a badge gets lost in the mail?
What if some dumb kid loses their badge or leaves it at home?
What if that dumb kid who lost their badge has super special syndrome?
It costs too much money to mail the badges.
It takes too much labor to mail the badges.
There is one legal problem that underlies this whole thing. There is a tax on all ticket sales. It's a big tax. Even though Otakon is non-profit, if they sell tickets to an event, they are subject to the tax. There is a loophole for this tax. Otakon doesn't sell tickets. They sell memberships. When you buy a badge, you are a member of Otakorp. Notice how they always refer to people as members, and the attendance as membership. The way it works is that Otakon is a private event, and only Otakorp members are permitted. That's also why they only have weekend passes, and no single-day badges anymore. If you are selling a single-day pass, is that really a membership? No, it's a ticket, so they don't do that anymore. This is why they want the badges to be non-transferrable, because that would turn the badge into a ticket instead of the membership card it is supposed to be.
To maintain revenues they would have to significantly raise the badge price if they were subject to this tax. Otakon will do anything to avoid this tax. Even so, they could still mail the badges. I joined the MoCCA, and they mailed me a membership card, no problem. They also sell tickets to the MoCCA arts festival, no problem.
Make the badge difficult to forge. People get into Otakon without a badge anyway because the security is lax, not because the badge is easily forged. Make a plastic PAX-like badge, and get better security staff that actually check properly. Picking badge art is nice, but who really cares? If choosing between not waiting in line and picking which anime is on my badge, I'll skip the line. Maybe you can have a standard art, and then an even better special art that costs extra. Make some extra green.
Who cares if people resell their badges. Every ticketed event in the world has this going on. It's no problem. The only problem is if people sell fake badges, which has nothing to do with the con. It's all the failure of the security staff to actually check. Also, Otakon doesn't sell out. Nobody will be able to sell their badge for above the retail price. Scalping will not exist. Maybe some punk kids who can't afford it will get a discount buying a badge off of someone who suddenly can't attend. It will make things better, not worse.
If someone forgets their badge, loses their badge, has a fake badge, etc. Just kick them out with no mercy or exception. Plenty of people go to Major League ballparks every single day. A lot of them bring kids with super special syndrome. If they don't have a ticket, they don't get in. No exceptions. Why should Otakon be different?
PAX, NYAF, NYCC, CCI (SDCC), and many other conventions which are smaller than Otakon are all economically capable of mailing the badges. These conventions cost about the same as Otakon. If the problem is labor, then Otakon staff are just lazy. PAX and all those other cons have volunteer staffs, even if the cons are for profit, and they get it done. If Otakon can't get it done, then it's because of them sucking.
Lastly, I don't know how much the tax is, exactly, but depending on the numbers, Otakon could probably just give up on the legal loophole and pay the tax. Maybe the extra money would help Baltimore / MD suck a little bit less. Maybe a slight increase in badge price would decrease the attendance slightly, but it would get rid of punk trouble making kids.
I know this is blasphemy, but maybe Otakon could have one or two fewer expensive Japanese guests. Personally, I think they are totally awesome, and I want to see them more than anything. They are one of the things I enjoy the most about Otakon. However, there is no denying that their panels are typically poorly attended. Noburo Ishiguro's panel was simultaneously awesome and empty. Our D&D panel, not even anime related, had at least over 10x the attendance.
If Otakon really wants to force these high quality guests down the throats of the punk kids who don't want to see them, then get rid of some of the other guests. Aren't they bringing over some fashion designer this year. Seriously? I know they are probably famous and awesome, but if the cost of that can alleviate the badge mailing cost, then can it.
For what it's worth, while I can't announce anything, we're really working hard to nail out the logistics for mailing them in the internal Otakon forums.
Also, to the concept of Baltimore only sucking slightly less, I am left with a mental image of only having to step over 8 homeless people on the way back to my hotel rather than 9. I have to go back for a professional conference in 2011 (was last held there in 2008), so I would be happily surprised to see this happen.
The sad thing is, I can shoot down every one of these arguments with little thought, which just goes to show how useless their con staff is:
People will forge the badges ahead of time.
- So stick something on the badge to make it copy-proof and give each badge a unique serial number. Make the badge hard plastic and credit card sized, throw a barcode or a magstripe on the back that links to the membership, and/or stick a holographic sticker on it. Problem solved.
Right now they let you select badge art. If they mail the badges, that becomes a very large logistical problem, so they will probably have to resort to a single badge art.
- Waaah. If the attendees are so honked off that they don't to get to pick which of their favorite Pokemans goes on the badge then they need to suck it up and put on their big-boy underwear.
They don't want people to transfer the badges, sell them on eBay/Craigslist, etc.
- A badge sold is a badge sold. If someone buys an extra one and hawks it out on eBay then what's the problem? Ticket scalping goes on in all walks of life.
What if a badge gets lost in the mail?
- Send the badges registered mail w/return receipt and add that in to the badge price. Or send the badges out a couple months in advance and then post an announcement in about a month that everyone should have received their badges by now and anyone who hasn't should email the con at [lost badges email address] with proof of purchase.
What if some dumb kid loses their badge or leaves it at home?
- Tough shit. Buy a new membership at the door.
What if that dumb kid who lost their badge has super special syndrome?
- Tough shit. Their parent or guardian can buy a new membership at the door.
It costs too much money to mail the badges.
- Tack it in to the cost of the badge. Punk Kid Attendees don't like the rising prices? Tough shit. It costs money to run the con and this is for their convenience.
It takes too much labor to mail the badges.
- Hire a fulfillment company to do it.
A serial number has to be looked up in a database for it to make any kind of difference, and then how do you control entry and re-entry? You can't. The card readers require the security at the door to handle con technology (security is usually done by the convention center, so this is an issue) and it compounds the number of things that can go wrong with letting people in. At least with a sticker, it's affixed to the badge and easy to see, and you can get one custom printed and make it frangible so it can't be easily reproduced. You can show security what sticker to look for, and that's all they have to remember. Animazement did this, and it worked great. The battery can't die, and the security staff can't fuck up or steal something expensive. A foil would be even better, but might increase the cost of the badge significantly.
Anyone who has enough money to make a really good forgery of the badge with a few small security tweaks will just buy a freaking badge. We're not worried about Ocean's Eleven here... it's the punk kids with color photocopiers.