While on the one hand I understand Emily's literal, "if the word 'date' is not said or sexual interest is not conveyed then it's not a 'date'" mentality, there is a definte implied cultural meaning to a guy and girl going out alone together. You're definitely correct to protest why should it be different than...but the fact of it is different.
there is a definte implied cultural meaning to a guy and girl going out alone together. You're definitely correct to protest why should it be different than...but the fact of it is different.
Only for old fashioned people or those who are still deeply immersed in general popular culture. If one is self-confident and has any gender-to-which-they-are-attracted friends they aren't actively trying to have sexual intercourse with, then it isn't a problem. Being outside of the dating memes of the general population has the same effect.
Most of the guys I've seen who complain about this sort of thing don't really have any female friends, or at least don't ever hang out alone with their female friends. They put an unreasonable expectation on every solo interaction with the opposite sex, and read way too deeply into the body language and semantics involved.
Only for old fashioned people or those who are still deeply immersed in general popular culture. If one is self-confident and has any gender-to-which-they-are-attracted friends they aren't actively trying to have sexual intercourse with, then it isn't a problem. Being outside of the dating memes of the general population has the same effect.
So what you're saying is that most people think this way?
While on the one hand I understand Emily's literal, "if the word 'date' is not said or sexual interest is not conveyed then it's not a 'date'" mentality, there is a definte implied cultural meaning to a guy and girl going out alone together. You're definitely correct to protest why should it be different than...but the fact of it is different.
Assumptions lead to miscommunications. Miscommunications lead to anger. Anger leads to DRAMA.
My issue is trying to take that step from "just hanging out with a member of the opposite sex" to "I am interested in pursuing some form of relationship with you," 'cause it seems that there's no streamlined, natural way of doing that. It feels like it's taking a blind leap, and I dunno if I'm seeing it as something different than it actually is.
I don't have a lack of dating experience, it's just that all of my relationships have generally come out of some long-term friendship thing, that slowly ended up developing over time. Asking someone out is something I've never really had to consider as a step, it's always been this long-term thing. I also have a large pool of female friends, so it's not like I'm uncomfortable with hanging out one-on-one with another person, it just feels like I'm overthinking something that's natural for most people. Ideas?
So what you're saying is that most people think this way?
Yeah, and it's a stupid way to be. Thus, intelligent people who continue to act this way are acting foolishly and against their own self-interest.
People in this forum, having access to the Internet, should know better, or at least learn to be better. Knowing all of the above, there is now no excuse for anyone in this thread to act so childishly around girls.
My issue is trying to take that step from "just hanging out with a member of the opposite sex" to "I am interested in pursuing some form of relationship with you," 'cause it seems that there's no streamlined, natural way of doing that.
"Wanna have sex?" That's one way. How about "hey, would you be amenable to making out?" There's another way. If you're bold, just kiss a girl. Or ask her to accompany you to an obviously couple-based event like a formal dance or ball.
I'm not saying I agree with these cultural "memes", just that they're there.
Yes, and they are the reason I have a presentation on NOT being that way, as well as a potential forthcoming book on the subject.
A couple decades ago, humors of the body were a prevailing medical theory. Those who had a better way eventually propagated their ideas, which worked better, and now not very many people practice humor-based medicine.
"Wanna have sex?" That's one way. How about "hey, would you be amenable to making out?" There's another way. If you're bold, just kiss a girl. Or ask her to accompany you to an obviously couple-based event like a formal dance or ball.
OR you could start with going for a cuddle, instead of a kiss. You know, feel it out. If she's up for that, then you can move onward. If she's not, you know to stop.
My issue is trying to take that step from "just hanging out with a member of the opposite sex" to "I am interested in pursuing some form of relationship with you," 'cause it seems that there's no streamlined, natural way of doing that. It feels like it's taking a blind leap, and I dunno if I'm seeing it as something different than it actually is.
I don't have a lack of dating experience, it's just that all of my relationships have generally come out of some long-term friendship thing, that slowly ended up developing over time. Asking someone out is something I've never really had to consider as a step, it's always been this long-term thing. I also have a large pool of female friends, so it's not like I'm uncomfortable with hanging out one-on-one with another person, it just feels like I'm overthinking something that's natural for most people. Ideas?
See the old fashion view of anytime two single people (who are attracted to each other gender) hang out can potentially become a date is kinda the natural way around that ^_^.
"Wanna have sex?" That's one way. How about "hey, would you be amenable to making out?" There's another way. If you're bold, just kiss a girl. Or ask her to accompany you to an obviously couple-based event like a formal dance or ball.
Clearly this is all before alcohol becomes involved in the dating process then it's Crazy town!
It's interesting how the word "date" has changed over time. I remember having a conversation with my parents once about this and to them, and to older people in general, a "date" is something that two people in a committed relationship did together. Now, to us "young folk," a date is something you go on to determine if you want to be in a committed relationship with that other person, at least for the most part. For most couples, once you are a couple, you don't really go on dates anymore.
It's an interesting difference that I hadn't really thought about until I had the conversation.
"Wanna have sex?" That's one way. How about "hey, would you be amenable to making out?" There's another way. If you're bold, just kiss a girl. Or ask her to accompany you to an obviously couple-based event like a formal dance or ball.
OR you could start with going for a cuddle, instead of a kiss. You know, feel it out. If she's up for that, then you can move onward. If she's not, you know to stop.
It's interesting how the word "date" has changed over time. I remember having a conversation with my parents once about this and to them, and to older people in general, a "date" is something that two people in a committed relationship did together.
Really? My dad is the opposite, pretty much anytime two young folks of a certain age go out was considered a date for him... Then again he was a player back in the day ;-p
Its funny, all this talk of not knowing something is a date. Andrew says our first date was grabbing ice cream together from a place near campus. I don't even remember this occurring, but to him it was a date. Andrew was just a cool guy from my marching band section, and I guess it was a hot day, and we got ice cream. Silly boys.
But yeah, I agree, sometimes it can be easy to not know something is a date (without giving some kind of hint). Makes me wonder how many "dates" I've had without knowing. >_>
My anniversary is effectively New Years Eve, because that is the first time I kissed Rym. We hung out and played Puerto Rico the day before, and had hung out at anime club all the time, but it's really easy to count from the new year!
I've always felt that actual "date"s are any time you go out with just the person you're interested in for the purposes of getting to know them better and being intimate. Depending on the relationship and how the date goes, the latter may not really work out. So, from this perspective, during the month my ex and I were together, we never actually went on a date. And we never really talked about when our anniversary would be, but I decided that it should be the day we agreed that we were boy/girlfriend.
"Wanna have sex?" That's one way. How about "hey, would you be amenable to making out?" There's another way. If you're bold, just kiss a girl. Or ask her to accompany you to an obviously couple-based event like a formal dance or ball.
OR you could start with going for a cuddle, instead of a kiss. You know, feel it out. If she's up for that, then you can move onward. If she's not, you know to stop.Goddammit, I was hoping there was some secret way that's not potentially mortifying/awkward-inducing if it goes wrong.
I suppose it doesn't help that I have approximately no self-confidence when it comes to girls I'm attracted to.
Goddammit, I was hoping there was some secret way that's not potentially mortifying/awkward-inducing if it goes wrong.
Sometime when she is venting or complaining about something shitty happening, you can easily say, "I wish I could help, but unless you want a backrub, I don't really have much to offer."
See what she does. If she laughs it off, no harm. But there's always the chance of ORLY? And then you have some physical contact with which to gauge her response to your touch. Just don't assume that yes to a backrub means yes to dating... this is just a step to give you a clue about her boundaries and potentially get a little bit more intimate/comfortable.
"Wanna have sex?" That's one way. How about "hey, would you be amenable to making out?" There's another way. If you're bold, just kiss a girl. Or ask her to accompany you to an obviously couple-based event like a formal dance or ball.
OR you could start with going for a cuddle, instead of a kiss. You know, feel it out. If she's up for that, then you can move onward. If she's not, you know to stop.
Goddammit, I was hoping there was some secret way that's not potentially mortifying/awkward-inducing if it goes wrong.
I suppose it doesn't help that I have approximately no self-confidence when it comes to girls I'm attracted to.
A close female friend once advised me: "Just be drunk before you kiss her. That way, if it's awkward, you have an excuse, and if it's not, it's awesome!"
She met a guy she'll probably marry when he just kissed her. AFTER a long conversation of course; do not just go kissing strange ladies, hoping you'll hit the jackpot).
Yeah, I got asked this once. Not gonna tell you the outcome.
I was romantically bold at one point with someone, but it came out the wrong way. I've since learned to be casually bold with people with really great results.
I feel that, if it's someone you trust and know fairly well, speaking your mind is something that you should allow yourself to do. Because even if you get turned down, chances are they aren't going to get upset with you just for being honest. At least, in my experience.
Not really talking about the "Wanna have sex?" thing, more about just conveying interest in someone in general, but it's probably still applicable.
Goddammit, I was hoping there was some secret way that's not potentially mortifying/awkward-inducing if it goes wrong.
Just be prepared for the rejection. If she says no, just have a slightly disappointed attitude and change the topic like it didn't happen. Making her feel comfortable with her decision helps make it less awkward.
This is how Rym asked me out, after he was driving me home from hanging out at his RIT apartment playing board games with him and Scott. "Man, if you lived closer, we should totally date." "Yeah, that would be cool. Hey, look, that car got in an accident, it looks like." And then we talked about random shit the whole way home. And then I called him up, and said that I thought he was cute, and let's date anyway, even if it is long distance for a bit. And then he got lost in a snowstorm driving back home. And now here we are!
Comments
Most of the guys I've seen who complain about this sort of thing don't really have any female friends, or at least don't ever hang out alone with their female friends. They put an unreasonable expectation on every solo interaction with the opposite sex, and read way too deeply into the body language and semantics involved.
I don't have a lack of dating experience, it's just that all of my relationships have generally come out of some long-term friendship thing, that slowly ended up developing over time. Asking someone out is something I've never really had to consider as a step, it's always been this long-term thing. I also have a large pool of female friends, so it's not like I'm uncomfortable with hanging out one-on-one with another person, it just feels like I'm overthinking something that's natural for most people. Ideas?
People in this forum, having access to the Internet, should know better, or at least learn to be better. Knowing all of the above, there is now no excuse for anyone in this thread to act so childishly around girls.
I'm not saying I agree with these cultural "memes", just that they're there.
It really is that simple.
A couple decades ago, humors of the body were a prevailing medical theory. Those who had a better way eventually propagated their ideas, which worked better, and now not very many people practice humor-based medicine. OR you could start with going for a cuddle, instead of a kiss. You know, feel it out. If she's up for that, then you can move onward. If she's not, you know to stop.
It's an interesting difference that I hadn't really thought about until I had the conversation.
But yeah, I agree, sometimes it can be easy to not know something is a date (without giving some kind of hint). Makes me wonder how many "dates" I've had without knowing. >_>
I suppose it doesn't help that I have approximately no self-confidence when it comes to girls I'm attracted to.
See what she does. If she laughs it off, no harm. But there's always the chance of ORLY? And then you have some physical contact with which to gauge her response to your touch. Just don't assume that yes to a backrub means yes to dating... this is just a step to give you a clue about her boundaries and potentially get a little bit more intimate/comfortable.
She met a guy she'll probably marry when he just kissed her. AFTER a long conversation of course; do not just go kissing strange ladies, hoping you'll hit the jackpot).
I was romantically bold at one point with someone, but it came out the wrong way. I've since learned to be casually bold with people with really great results.
Not really talking about the "Wanna have sex?" thing, more about just conveying interest in someone in general, but it's probably still applicable.
"Man, if you lived closer, we should totally date."
"Yeah, that would be cool. Hey, look, that car got in an accident, it looks like."
And then we talked about random shit the whole way home.
And then I called him up, and said that I thought he was cute, and let's date anyway, even if it is long distance for a bit.
And then he got lost in a snowstorm driving back home.
And now here we are!