How often does he actually ask for advice, as opposed to just telling us something that is going on? We tend to give unsolicited advice a lot. A LOT.
Axel: "My girlfriend isn't sure if she wants to stay together in the long run, but I want to stay together as long as possible." FRCF: "BREAK UP WITH HER. MOVE ON."
No one is crying or getting uppity, Josh. Axel just has this habit of posting and asking for or expecting advice, and then just doing his own thing regardless. Now, that's all well and good, but it starts to waste people's time after a while, and then just looks kind of like attention whoring. I'm not saying it is attention whoring, but it feels like it sometimes.
More of, two people seemed to get ticked, and it's not uncommon for people to go "Axel will do stupid shit", when, as Nuri pointed out, it seemed to me that he was just sharing.
I will say that, to be entirely upfront, Ro's comment totally irked me and that had been building up since I saw it. I probably shouldn't have posted, since my emotions have been all over the place recently, but I did feel that it was kind of undeserved. Sorry to have kinda spewed that up.
Maybe. But right now my strong feelings are putting me in a fragile state, and I'd rather have that broken over the summer than right now. My life is too stressful right now to add to that.
And yes, I realize that my behavior about this isn't normal and requires therapy. However, I also know that I'm too stubborn, shy, and nervous to go step into a counselor's office, so...
Hi Axel, I don't know you, and YMMV, but as someone who has struggled long-time with depression and emotionally abusive relationships, start therapist shopping now. It's a hard process: it's unlikely to find the perfect fit right away, and opening your soul up to stranger after well-intentioned stranger is HARD. BUT TOTALLY WORTH IT. We aren't the same person, obviously, but in my experience, I lived this strange dichotomy of enjoying depression while also hating it. It always left me in this weird state of non-want ambivalent lumpiness and moments of absolute despair and trapped frustration. Dealing with that (i.e. finding a good therapist and starting happy pills) has completely changed my life, and in a good way. It's a lot easier to deal with everything else when one feels stable inside.
I recommend reading Against Depression by Peter Kramer. Among other things, the clear scientifically based description of depression as an escalating disease resulting in compounding brain damage was a big motivation in my seeking help.
I think everyone here basically wanted to prepare Axel for the worst when it happens because Love is simply fucking insane and unpredictable. And that's the truth, but even if you do succeed and she is awesome, it is still important to learn lessons about learning to love yourself and find happiness within being alone. It's important to learn how to have fun just doing things by yourself, because depending other people, as well as you know them and as much as you love them, CAN backfire.
Hi Axel, I don't know you, and YMMV, but as someone who has struggled long-time with depression and emotionally abusive relationships, start therapist shopping now.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, HE'S ONLY HAVING PROBLEMS WITH HIS FIRST GIRLFRIEND!!!
I will say that, to be entirely upfront, Ro's comment totally irked me and that had been building up since I saw it. I probably shouldn't have posted, since my emotions have been all over the place recently, but I did feel that it was kind of undeserved. Sorry to have kinda spewed that up.
Get over it. I'm not the only one who thinks the same thing.
Hi Axel, I don't know you, and YMMV, but as someone who has struggled long-time with depression and emotionally abusive relationships, start therapist shopping now.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, HE'S ONLY HAVING PROBLEMS WITH HIS FIRST GIRLFRIEND!!!
This doesn't require therapy.
Whoa there cowboy. My point was about the depression, not the relationship.
My point was about the depression, not the relationship.
Depression is one thing, but Axel has yet to say anything about any kind of emotionally abusive relationship.
I looked through his posts again, and I can't find the part where he asked for any advice about what he should do or think or feel or say about his relationship. I found one post where he specifically says he doesn't want advice, and isn't going to follow it, and that he is going to do things his own way because he feels that will be the best for him. Good on him! He obviously knows the most about his current situation, and the only way he'll be able to trust his instincts in the future is to test them out against reality now.
I was once in a relationship, and I took advice from my friends and family. I turns out this was the WORST thing to do, as my girlfriend knew a few of them, and had told them her "side" of the story. Their advice was perfect for the relationship they THOUGHT I was in, but not for the reality of my situation. It turns out my instincts were correct, but I acted against both my instincts and my own best interests. Axel thinks he knows best in this situation, and I'm going to trust that he does. He knows more than I do, and I can see nothing wrong with his current plan. There's certainly no need for 60+ posts of people jumping on him and him having to defend himself.
Back to the main subject of the thread: Went on a date last night. Had sex. Good times. We might meet again next week.
So the girl I went to see Tangled with ended up bringing her roommate, so that ended up sucking. That being said, I'm hanging out with her this weekend. I don't really think this is going to go anywhere, but I might as well give it a try in a more controlled environment.
That sucks dude, I had a girl do this to me once. Do you know if she was just oblivious that you meant it to be a date or doesn't want to date you? In my case she didn't want to date me, but didn't want to hurt my feelings. Bringing her friend in my case was far worse than if she'd just said no.
And yes, I realize that my behavior about this isn't normal and requires therapy. However, I also know that I'm too stubborn, shy, and nervous to go step into a counselor's office, so...
Don't be, all of the sessions are suppose to be confidential. I went to a couple of them during a hard time during my college career and it helped a lot. I even went there just to talk about stuff that I would not feel confortable about talking with most people. Sadly my counselor received a very good offer from Caltech, after that I stopped going mostly because it was just not the same. Still, I totally recommend talking with a counselor.
I just hope you do not start using "like" in your sentences as much as you did when you were all emo last year :P
Luke: Congrats! Glad to hear someone can have normal relationship stuff. Fun sex times with random dates aren't for me, but kudos to the people who can enjoy it.
And, yeah...Luke continues to be far more reasonable than most people on the forum. Just sayin'.
And while I do appreciate people who legitimately want me to make good decisions and be happy, a lot of you don't actually want that (Not saying any names) and really just dislike my posts about my opinion because they happen to disagree with me. I understand that people have the freedom to disagree with me, be very vocal about it, and still feel justified. But here's the thing: You're not justified. For instance, I personally would disagree with Luke's life choice of just dating someone and having sex quickly. But I don't jump on him. That's his choice, and I'm glad someone in this world can be happy making their own choices. I think the problem a lot of you have is that you can't be happy with me making my own choices, you want me to be just like you because it validates how cool and awesome your lifestyle is.
Here's the deal: Nothing validates your life but your life. Me making decisions that fit your lifestyle don't prove how cool you are. If you just legitimately think I need advice, okay. But if you sit here and insult me for making my own decisions, what are you accomplishing? If that makes you feel good about yourself, something is wrong with you. If you laugh at my "dumb" choices, that's nice. If you feel the need to insult me about it and then get all defensive when someone points out you're being a little harsh, you need to look at this whole thing and decide if it's even worth responding to my posts.
Actually, it's Scott's rule: If you dislike people, don't read their posts. If you dislike what I post, and several of you do, skip it. Gloss over. If it bothers you as much as it seems, well...I would prefer you not be bothered by my life choices.
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, HE'S ONLY HAVING PROBLEMS WITH HIS FIRST GIRLFRIEND!!!
This doesn't require therapy.
Yes, but if you were paying attention he talked about having severe depression before, unrelated to and proceeding the relationship. That's why we say that.
Anyway, Axel, I'm not going to advise you, except that I think she might be balking at too much pressure being put on her. It sounds like you are pretty intense about stuff. I was always leery of defining relationships and having other people's expectations thrust upon me. You don't have to put a label on it, dating/not dating etc. just so long as you both make your feelings and boundaries clear to each other.
So the girl I went to see Tangled with ended up bringing her roommate, so that ended up sucking. That being said, I'm hanging out with her this weekend. I don't really think this is going to go anywhere, but I might as well give it a try in a more controlled environment.
That sucks dude, I had a girl do this to me once. Do you know if she was just oblivious that you meant it to be a date or doesn't want to date you? In my case she didn't want to date me, but didn't want to hurt my feelings. Bringing her friend in my case was far worse than if she'd just said no.
Or it could mean, "I don't want to date you, but I think you're pretty cool regardless and would like to be friends". In which case, it's REALLY annoying for girls when guys only want to be friendly to you if they think you might date them. I've had guys be sweet as can be until they find out I'm not romantically interested, and then turn around and literally completely ignore me. If that's how you're going to be about it, you obviously don't really give two shits about that person, and it's super unflattering. If you were trying to date them, OBVIOUSLY you found something redeeming/good about them, why be so pissy when you get friendship out of the deal? (Unless you're being led on, but that's another situation entirely.)
You don't have to put a label on it, dating/not dating etc. just so long as you both make your feelings and boundaries clear to each other.
And that's what we're trying to do, and it seems to be okay so far. I'm expecting the weekend to go okay, since we'll be cosplaying, having a good time at Tora-Con, and seem to be planning the same kinds of things to attend.
And yes, I know that me putting pressure on her wasn't helpful, that's why I stopped. She's been afraid that it's unfair of me to have a relationship this way, and a lot of people on the forum seems to think I'm being a pansy/weak-willed, but I genuinely prefer this outcome of giving her what she wants, because it helps me get what I want: More time with her. That's really all this is. I still get to spend time with her, but I'm going to put less pressure onto her, and am giving her more space. It works out just fine, and while it's not an optimal solution, there is no optimal solution.
That's fine and good. Personally, it would make me nervous dating someone who I felt I would destroy if I ever broke up with them. It's a lot of responsibility to shoulder.
Personally, it would make me nervous dating someone who I felt I would destroy if I ever broke up with them. It's a lot of responsibility to shoulder.
I know it's hard on her, but telling her I'd be fine with it is lying, and I try not to do that if I can. She still could've made that choice, and I feel bad if I'm accidentally coercing her into staying with me, but I'm not going to tell her I'd be fine.
Axel, I think all the people in this thread were trying to help you, in their own different ways; depression is serious business.
Umm...Maybe. But I would argue some people don't care about helping me, more they dislike hearing me making decisions that they think are stupid.
That was about my experience. Thus the "I don't know you" and "YMMV". Chill out please.
Of course. However, you were maybe the fourth or fifth person to recommend going to see a therapist or counselor. Nothing I've read from Axel makes me think he needs anything like that. He's perfectly capable of expressing himself, and seems to know himself better than most kids. If he was 30 and acting the same way, I'd be surprised. But he isn't 30. To me he seems like a perfectly normal geeky 18/19 year old (how old are you when you leave school in the US?) trying to learn about relationships in with his first girlfriend. Until you've had "It's Complicated" as your Facebook relationship status, you've hardly lived, and Axel just needs a few more years and relationships under his belt (to use a mildly inappropriate turn of phrase).
Yeah, because kids under 30 have never killed themselves or fucked up their lives because of untreated depression.
I've lost friends to suicide. I've been struggling with severe episodes of depression since high school. His age has nothing to do with it, and he has personally disclosed that he struggles with depression and is having trouble getting himself to a doctor to treat it. The counseling recommendation has nothing to do with his relationship status. No one has recommended couples counseling, which is what I would recommend if I thought his relationship needed professional help.
That was about my experience. Thus the "I don't know you" and "YMMV". Chill out please.
Of course. However, you were maybe the fourth or fifth person to recommend going to see a therapist or counselor. Nothing I've read from Axel makes me think he needs anything like that. He's perfectly capable of expressing himself, and seems to know himself better than most kids. If he was 30 and acting the same way, I'd be surprised. But he isn't 30. To me he seems like a perfectly normal geeky 18/19 year old (how old are you when you leave school in the US?) trying to learn about relationships in with his first girlfriend. Until you've had "It's Complicated" as your Facebook relationship status, you've hardly lived, and Axel just needs a few more years and relationships under his belt (to use a mildly inappropriate turn of phrase).
He's already well ahead of me in that regard, and probably Scott Rubin. Still, as Nuri says, depression is serious business, and I think that's what most of the people responding to Axel were worried about.
But you are turning (very basic) issues within his (first ever) relationship into something that they are not: predictors or symptoms of depression. They aren't. He wants the best for his girlfriend, and is willing to put up with a bit of stress to ensure that. This is something I've done too.
But you are turning (very basic) issues within his (first ever) relationship into something that they are not: predictors or symptoms of depression. They aren't. He wants the best for his girlfriend, and is willing to put up with a bit of stress to ensure that. This is something I've done too.
No Luke, we're not predicting anything. We're taking Axel's word for the fact that he's struggling with depression. This is not a judgment we have imposed upon him.
If you say so. My reading of this thread picked up on a different message though.
Here's my advice: once someone has said they know what they want, that they know more about the situation and the people involved than you do, and that they are going to go through with their plan and don't plan on following your advice, it's probably best not to follow this up with 50 posts where you insist he is wrong and put him on the defensive. That's really not cool. This isn't a debate about religion or science, where some positions are backed up by evidence and logic, and others aren't. We're talking about people and relationships between people. This is messy stuff! Let Axel get on with his messy life. He'll make mistakes, like everyone, and get his heart broken, like everyone, and feel depressed, like everyone. And then, like everyone, he'll realise it isn't the end of the world, and he'll move on with his life. He isn't about to kill himself or overdose on drugs. He's not that stupid.
Axel, don't kill yourself. You'll make me look really stupid for defending you.
Depression is something I very regularly deal with. It's genetic, got it from my Dad.
I've never wanted to kill myself, but I have regularly felt useless and like a waste of space. There is no combat to it I know, but meds can be helpful, though I've seen that road fail before. It's careful, you have to take good care of it.
Yeah, because kids under 30 have never killed themselves or fucked up their lives because of untreated depression.
I've never wanted to kill myself
And so I'll let Axel have a normal relationship with his first girlfriend without advising him to dump her and see a therapist. The worst that will happen is that he'll feel depressed in a new and interesting way. If he really does feel like killing himself, that will be nothing out of the ordinary for someone who is truly in love and loses that love. I know I've been there! But like I said, Axel isn't an idiot. And if he is, 50 forum posts that do nothing but put him on the defensive isn't going to make him not-an-idiot.
Luke, it's not as simple as being an "idiot" or "not-an-idiot". Intelligent people - of which I'd say that Axel is one - are entirely capable of suicide.
Comments
FRCF: "BREAK UP WITH HER. MOVE ON."
I will say that, to be entirely upfront, Ro's comment totally irked me and that had been building up since I saw it. I probably shouldn't have posted, since my emotions have been all over the place recently, but I did feel that it was kind of undeserved. Sorry to have kinda spewed that up.
We aren't the same person, obviously, but in my experience, I lived this strange dichotomy of enjoying depression while also hating it. It always left me in this weird state of non-want ambivalent lumpiness and moments of absolute despair and trapped frustration.
Dealing with that (i.e. finding a good therapist and starting happy pills) has completely changed my life, and in a good way. It's a lot easier to deal with everything else when one feels stable inside.
I recommend reading Against Depression by Peter Kramer. Among other things, the clear scientifically based description of depression as an escalating disease resulting in compounding brain damage was a big motivation in my seeking help.
This doesn't require therapy.
My point was about the depression, not the relationship.
I looked through his posts again, and I can't find the part where he asked for any advice about what he should do or think or feel or say about his relationship. I found one post where he specifically says he doesn't want advice, and isn't going to follow it, and that he is going to do things his own way because he feels that will be the best for him. Good on him! He obviously knows the most about his current situation, and the only way he'll be able to trust his instincts in the future is to test them out against reality now.
I was once in a relationship, and I took advice from my friends and family. I turns out this was the WORST thing to do, as my girlfriend knew a few of them, and had told them her "side" of the story. Their advice was perfect for the relationship they THOUGHT I was in, but not for the reality of my situation. It turns out my instincts were correct, but I acted against both my instincts and my own best interests. Axel thinks he knows best in this situation, and I'm going to trust that he does. He knows more than I do, and I can see nothing wrong with his current plan. There's certainly no need for 60+ posts of people jumping on him and him having to defend himself.
Back to the main subject of the thread: Went on a date last night. Had sex. Good times. We might meet again next week.
Still, I totally recommend talking with a counselor.
I just hope you do not start using "like" in your sentences as much as you did when you were all emo last year :P
And, yeah...Luke continues to be far more reasonable than most people on the forum. Just sayin'.
And while I do appreciate people who legitimately want me to make good decisions and be happy, a lot of you don't actually want that (Not saying any names) and really just dislike my posts about my opinion because they happen to disagree with me. I understand that people have the freedom to disagree with me, be very vocal about it, and still feel justified. But here's the thing: You're not justified. For instance, I personally would disagree with Luke's life choice of just dating someone and having sex quickly. But I don't jump on him. That's his choice, and I'm glad someone in this world can be happy making their own choices. I think the problem a lot of you have is that you can't be happy with me making my own choices, you want me to be just like you because it validates how cool and awesome your lifestyle is.
Here's the deal: Nothing validates your life but your life. Me making decisions that fit your lifestyle don't prove how cool you are. If you just legitimately think I need advice, okay. But if you sit here and insult me for making my own decisions, what are you accomplishing? If that makes you feel good about yourself, something is wrong with you. If you laugh at my "dumb" choices, that's nice. If you feel the need to insult me about it and then get all defensive when someone points out you're being a little harsh, you need to look at this whole thing and decide if it's even worth responding to my posts.
Actually, it's Scott's rule: If you dislike people, don't read their posts. If you dislike what I post, and several of you do, skip it. Gloss over. If it bothers you as much as it seems, well...I would prefer you not be bothered by my life choices.
Anyway, Axel, I'm not going to advise you, except that I think she might be balking at too much pressure being put on her. It sounds like you are pretty intense about stuff. I was always leery of defining relationships and having other people's expectations thrust upon me. You don't have to put a label on it, dating/not dating etc. just so long as you both make your feelings and boundaries clear to each other.
And yes, I know that me putting pressure on her wasn't helpful, that's why I stopped. She's been afraid that it's unfair of me to have a relationship this way, and a lot of people on the forum seems to think I'm being a pansy/weak-willed, but I genuinely prefer this outcome of giving her what she wants, because it helps me get what I want: More time with her. That's really all this is. I still get to spend time with her, but I'm going to put less pressure onto her, and am giving her more space. It works out just fine, and while it's not an optimal solution, there is no optimal solution.
Personally, it would make me nervous dating someone who I felt I would destroy if I ever broke up with them. It's a lot of responsibility to shoulder.
I've lost friends to suicide. I've been struggling with severe episodes of depression since high school. His age has nothing to do with it, and he has personally disclosed that he struggles with depression and is having trouble getting himself to a doctor to treat it. The counseling recommendation has nothing to do with his relationship status. No one has recommended couples counseling, which is what I would recommend if I thought his relationship needed professional help.
Still, as Nuri says, depression is serious business, and I think that's what most of the people responding to Axel were worried about.
Here's my advice: once someone has said they know what they want, that they know more about the situation and the people involved than you do, and that they are going to go through with their plan and don't plan on following your advice, it's probably best not to follow this up with 50 posts where you insist he is wrong and put him on the defensive. That's really not cool. This isn't a debate about religion or science, where some positions are backed up by evidence and logic, and others aren't. We're talking about people and relationships between people. This is messy stuff! Let Axel get on with his messy life. He'll make mistakes, like everyone, and get his heart broken, like everyone, and feel depressed, like everyone. And then, like everyone, he'll realise it isn't the end of the world, and he'll move on with his life. He isn't about to kill himself or overdose on drugs. He's not that stupid.
Axel, don't kill yourself. You'll make me look really stupid for defending you.