Actually, most of the scholarship I've seen comes down in favor of Jesus being fictional, with his followers coming from a kind of merger between a few other Messianic cults including that of John the Baptist and a Joseph, who are much more likely to have existed.
A very heavily notated Wikipedia article disagrees.
One thing to keep in mind is that "Jesus" is just the Latinized form of the name "Joshua" (or Yeshua in Hebrew and, I think, Aramaic). This is also why you see a lot of Latin American dudes named "Jesus" (when talking about the Biblical Jesus, they specifically refer to him as "Jesus Cristo" or "Jesus Christ" in English). Joshua, as you can imagine, was (and still is) a fairly common name.
As far as the existence of the Biblical Jesus, I've always assumed there were at least one or more actual historical figures that existed that were amalgamated into the Biblical Jesus as known today, pretty much along the links of what Linkigi said.
That applies to an awful lot of areas of study. Circular referencing in isolation doesn't make sources invalid unless none of the sources contain anything novel.
Anyway, I think there's a pretty good case for a Jesus having existed, or a couple J-guys who all got aggregated into Jesus. Less so for all the walking on water, making dead fish multiply stuff.
Anyway, I think there's a pretty good case for a Jesus having existed, or a couple J-guys who all got aggregated into Jesus. Less so for all the walking on water, making dead fish multiply stuff.
Yep. Sums up my feelings exactly. Also Thomas Jefferson's.
I'm unconvinced there is a reasonable case for a historical Jesus. The level of dilution it takes of other stories to get to the narrative itself makes Jesus somewhat less historical than even Robin Hood or King Arthur.
I'd love to go into detail on this, but it's such a huge topic that it's pretty pointless in a forum. Considering I'm writing a book which touches heavily on the subject, if you're still interested in a month or so you can start reading along as I post it chapter by chapter (as I write it) to a blog. The book is also about Star Wars. I hope it's fun and accessible.
Meanwhile, the only way to know what the earliest Christians thought about their Christ. This is NOT what is found in the Gospels, but in the early epistles now attributed to Paul. As it happens, those epistles are almost entirely devoid of any reference to Christ as a historical figure called Jesus, nor has any biographical details about him. What it does describe is a spiritual being that exists in realms that don't translate well to modern understandings of the universe, but fit perfectly with Platonism (the dominant world view of the time).
If you want to look at all the places Paul (and the other early church authors) *could* have mentioned something about the life of Jesus and *didn't*, check out the Sound of Silence by Earl Doherty. It's free to read on the website, and is pretty fascinating.
Once you've answered all Doherty's points, and you've explained why all the earliest Christian writers were ignorant of a historical Jesus, then we can start discussing the Gospel of Mark, and how it's a (very clever) mashup of the Old Testament scriptures and the Homeric epics (technical terms: mimesis and middrash).
But really, if you want to actually look at this topic, you have to get away from the conservative scholarship (which is probably all the circular references you find on wikipedia). Those scholars are almost entirely Christian, which wouldn't be a bad thing, but many have paid positions in Christian universities and seminaries. It's unfortunate that once a scholar "comes out" as a Christ myth proponent (or a New Testament minimalist) they often don't keep their job very long.
It's kind of a long story, but I've been friends with the guy who is running the current (outdoor) airsoft field here in SC. Apparently, it's had a lot of problems with the owner not being involved in the day to day running of the field, as well as too much managerial oversight from the owner, and a lot of other problems that I'd be happy to go into if you're curious.
Basically, they "fired" my friend who was managing it (even though he was doing it on a volunteer basis, and was doing a good job), and brought in a guy who was able to inject some more capital into the field. Now we have a lot of good buildings, but there is 0 marketing being done and I'm not even sure it's going to survive past the winter.
So... my idea is to try the same thing, obviously! But my idea will work because of reasons!
Really, I want to start up an indoor airsoft field. Similar to this but with a better website, and also more local for more southerly people.
The idea is that if we use warehouse space, we can make games more action packed with a smaller amount of people. Where the outdoor field is stretched out over 100 acres and you can go 20 minutes without seeing someone else, an indoor field would be great for lots of tight battles (think Call of Duty versus Planetside). Additionally, we could position it closer to a lot of the residential areas, whereas now it's a 30 minute drive from any real city.
This would allow us to market to kids getting off from school, as well as people getting off of work and people wanting to play over weekends. Also, daylight wouldn't be such a worry if we manage to keep the field well lit, so during the winter we could still be open until 7-8PM.
I've had lots of false starts in that area. :-) What sort of business?
I've actually been toying with the idea of starting an animal rescue. Not sure I can pull it off, but boy would I love doing it.
I know the feeling but man is it hard. I live with three enviromental scientist and know these dreams, but fuck do you need to be on the ball. There is nothing worse then someone trying to do this and making thing so much worse.
I've had lots of false starts in that area. :-) What sort of business?
I've actually been toying with the idea of starting an animal rescue. Not sure I can pull it off, but boy would I love doing it.
I know the feeling but man is it hard. I live with three enviromental scientist and know these dreams, but fuck do you need to be on the ball. There is nothing worse then someone trying to do this and making thing so much worse.
Well, I'd stick to something relatively simple like domestic animals, if I were gonna do it. Maybe just dogs. There's plenty of room for more dog fostering in my area. I wouldn't tackle wildlife at this point, not enough experience. I've amateur-rescued about 120 cats in my lifetime already, but never more than 2 or 3 at a time.
Really, I want to start up an indoor airsoft field. Similar to this but with a better website, and also more local for more southerly people.
Use the abandoned husk of a Borders.
Lawl, that's actually a hilarious idea. There's also an abandoned elementary school I've been eyeing.
Be careful. I once went urban spelunking around a house that as far as I could tell (and I did consult the Internet) was abandoned. There was moss covering the front door, trees fallen on the staircase, and it was completely barricaded by stuff such that we could not see through any windows; that is, save for the locked door on the destroyed porch, which showed that the inside of the house was similarly full of stuff. I and my friends came to the conclusion that some hoarder had barricaded him/herself in and died a la Burning Wheel Dwarves.
Turns out there were people living there. That was awkward. The conversation went more or less like this: Old Lady:"What are you boys doing?" Friend A: "We thought your house was abandoned" Old Lady: "Have you boys been drinking?" Friend "Just chocolate milk" [he had earlier bought two gallons worth, and still had most of it]
Alright... So today probably ranks as one of the all time great days in Group history. So we set out to watch a movie and then go see this haunted house in Greg's neighborhood. So David gets thirsty, an goes into Shaw's to get a cocont water. He couldn't find a good one, and we were all hungry, so we scour the store for food. David has approximatly $140, and us knowing this, we bought a roasted chicken, a bag of thick cut pepperoni, an ENTIRE cake, a 2 liter of Pepsi, a bag of string cheese, a gallon of chocolate milk, and a dozen glazed donuts. The chicken was everyone's idea of the "entree", the cake was a joke that Greg made but we went with it anyway for lolz, David wanted chocolate milk and so (for some reason) bought a gallon of it * (Why not a pint? Idk), the Pepsi came free with the chicken, the pepperoni was my idea for lolz, the donuts were 6 for a dollar (a deal, so Greg and David took them) and I don't quite remember who wanted cheese (it mighta been another of my jokes) So then, we go into a Burger King to eat it all, because, hey, why not? After making David buy a small drink (As a table fee) we dig in.Us eating all this food, and David conviniently having a mortar and pessel on the table... People were curious. The manager walked over on 2 occasions to tell us how unhealthy this was and to ask us why we had to much food. (That was code for: Can I buy weed from you guys?)Anyhow, of all the food we bought, at the end, all we had left were 8 donuts, 2/3 of a cake, and a bag of string cheese. So we go out to walk around to relieve the... um... everything... and we come across a statue of 4 famous Rex Sox players outside Fenway Park (Later found out to be called "The Teammates", and Greg comes up with this STUPID plan, to set up a shrine with all the leftover food and have David kneel down to it so he could take a picture of it. He set up cups, Pepsi, and donuts in an (admittidly stylish) way, so that it looks like an offering to the baseball gods. Shorty thereafter, about a dozen people surround it and take pictures with it, and, to our luck, there is a 7news truck near the statue, and, after seeing the shrine, has a camera aimed towards it, so we all assume this is gonna be on 7news someday (Check your local listings folks). So we lol, and go on our merry way, Greg and David to watch the movie, and me to go home (it was getting late), but to our luck, the movie wasn't showing, and even if it was, I couldn't have left because I had remembered that I had 2/3 of a cake in my bookbag. So we meet up and decide to go to the "haunted house". It was getting dark though, so we decide to buy a flashlight, but then we see this awesome camp light at REI and buy that instead. We buy batteries for it at Staples and get in the train to Resevoir. We get off, and on the way, David (Still carrying a gallon of chocolate milk on him mind you), goes into a 7/11 becuase we all thought it would be hilarious if he walked in w/ a gallon of CM, and then bought yet ANOTHER gallon of CM to freak out the cashier. They didn't have full gallons so he got a half gallon instead. But inside the 7/11, we saw something that was... wow. We saw a 2 lb rice crispie treat for $11... Now, I ask you, who the f*** needs a 2 lb rice crispie treat!?! Whatever... So then we set off to the house, but along the way, we all decided it would be hilarious if David asked every cute girl he saw (And one small jewish boy and his father) if they wanted a sip of the milk. There were no takers, but it was fun to watch. So we drop of our bags and stuff at Greg's house (of course taking a gallon and 1/2 of milk with him is David) and go off to the haunted house w/ the lantern. By now it was about 7, and really dark, so when we got there, I was freaked the f*** out. It was a house on a hill, and the path to it was blocked by fallen over trees, the doors were bolted shut and covered in ivy, it was everything out of a horror book. To get through, David had to leave the milk on the sidewalk and we all had to crawl under the trees in the way. So then we go out back, and while David's trying to break in through the back door when, all of the sudden, we see a pair of super bright headlights shining on me and Greg. 2 old white people walk out... and apparently they live there? What the fuck? The old lady threatened to have us arrested (Which David and Greg said tthey would have fought because David said he would have resisted to get his milk back and Greg says trespassing is a BS crime) and was unintentionally funny (assuming we were smart because we went to BLS... lolz) So we leave, heartbroken, and spent the rest of the evening playing Zelda OoT and Starfox 64... By the time we left, David had drank a little less than 1/2 the gallon of the chocolate milk (We found out it was less than 1/2 the hard way, we tried to pour the 1/2 gallon into what we thought was a 1/2 empty whole gallon w/ a funnel, but it overflowed...) and I tried to help him get over his addiction to milk (of all things, David's a MILK addict), but he won... What.A.Day
I forgot about the epic Rice Krispy treats and the baseball shrine.
Today, my physiology professor was talking about muscarinic receptors and he asked the class if any of us, quote, "Had ever gone mushroom hunting." No one answered yes, so he just continued with his mushroom anecdotes.
Please note that the most of the mushrooms containing muscarin that are remotely edible are also potently hallucinogenic. Coolest MCB professor on the faculty, I bet.
Today, my physiology professor was talking about muscarinic receptors and he asked the class if any of us, quote, "Had ever gone mushroom hunting." No one answered yes, so he just continued with his mushroom anecdotes.
Please note that the most of the mushrooms containing muscarin that are remotely edible are also potently hallucinogenic. Coolest MCB professor on the faculty, I bet.
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
As far as the existence of the Biblical Jesus, I've always assumed there were at least one or more actual historical figures that existed that were amalgamated into the Biblical Jesus as known today, pretty much along the links of what Linkigi said.
Anyway, I think there's a pretty good case for a Jesus having existed, or a couple J-guys who all got aggregated into Jesus. Less so for all the walking on water, making dead fish multiply stuff.
Meanwhile, the only way to know what the earliest Christians thought about their Christ. This is NOT what is found in the Gospels, but in the early epistles now attributed to Paul. As it happens, those epistles are almost entirely devoid of any reference to Christ as a historical figure called Jesus, nor has any biographical details about him. What it does describe is a spiritual being that exists in realms that don't translate well to modern understandings of the universe, but fit perfectly with Platonism (the dominant world view of the time).
If you want to look at all the places Paul (and the other early church authors) *could* have mentioned something about the life of Jesus and *didn't*, check out the Sound of Silence by Earl Doherty. It's free to read on the website, and is pretty fascinating.
Once you've answered all Doherty's points, and you've explained why all the earliest Christian writers were ignorant of a historical Jesus, then we can start discussing the Gospel of Mark, and how it's a (very clever) mashup of the Old Testament scriptures and the Homeric epics (technical terms: mimesis and middrash).
But really, if you want to actually look at this topic, you have to get away from the conservative scholarship (which is probably all the circular references you find on wikipedia). Those scholars are almost entirely Christian, which wouldn't be a bad thing, but many have paid positions in Christian universities and seminaries. It's unfortunate that once a scholar "comes out" as a Christ myth proponent (or a New Testament minimalist) they often don't keep their job very long.
I've actually been toying with the idea of starting an animal rescue. Not sure I can pull it off, but boy would I love doing it.
It's kind of a long story, but I've been friends with the guy who is running the current (outdoor) airsoft field here in SC. Apparently, it's had a lot of problems with the owner not being involved in the day to day running of the field, as well as too much managerial oversight from the owner, and a lot of other problems that I'd be happy to go into if you're curious.
Basically, they "fired" my friend who was managing it (even though he was doing it on a volunteer basis, and was doing a good job), and brought in a guy who was able to inject some more capital into the field. Now we have a lot of good buildings, but there is 0 marketing being done and I'm not even sure it's going to survive past the winter.
So... my idea is to try the same thing, obviously! But my idea will work because of reasons!
Really, I want to start up an indoor airsoft field. Similar to this but with a better website, and also more local for more southerly people.
The idea is that if we use warehouse space, we can make games more action packed with a smaller amount of people. Where the outdoor field is stretched out over 100 acres and you can go 20 minutes without seeing someone else, an indoor field would be great for lots of tight battles (think Call of Duty versus Planetside). Additionally, we could position it closer to a lot of the residential areas, whereas now it's a 30 minute drive from any real city.
This would allow us to market to kids getting off from school, as well as people getting off of work and people wanting to play over weekends. Also, daylight wouldn't be such a worry if we manage to keep the field well lit, so during the winter we could still be open until 7-8PM.
Turns out there were people living there. That was awkward. The conversation went more or less like this:
Old Lady:"What are you boys doing?"
Friend A: "We thought your house was abandoned"
Old Lady: "Have you boys been drinking?"
Friend
Please note that the most of the mushrooms containing muscarin that are remotely edible are also potently hallucinogenic. Coolest MCB professor on the faculty, I bet.