Also, if 5 wing power from fluttershy is able to do all that crazy stuff she pulled back in the starting of the season, RD's 16 wing power is probably on the scale of an actual tornado itself...awesome stuff.
Well she did make a tornado in the Parasprite episode...
Fads used to go on for 5+ years. MLP hasn't been around long enough for us to determine if it's a fad or not.
"Fad: a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., especially one followed enthusiastically by a group. "
"A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze."
"A fad is any form of behavior that develops among a large population and is collectively followed with enthusiasm for some period, generally as a result of the behavior's being perceived as novel in some way. A fad is said to "catch on" when the number of people adopting it begins to increase rapidly. The behavior will normally fade quickly once the perception of novelty is gone."
So, No. It's pretty easy to tell it's a fad, you just follow the definitions, like pretty much any other similar term. Good effort, though. Being a Fad isn't a bad thing, a lot of things are fads - No need to make shit up to defend the show, it doesn't need defending from that.
So Fluttershy was in fact a tree (total fanservice there).
Question though: What was Spitfire even doing there? She did pretty much nothing but stand around, even when her flying ability was needed the most to even get water to Cloudsdale in the first place. I'd assume she has about as much wing power as RD, but she just stood there and watched.
So Fluttershy was in fact a tree (total fanservice there).
Question though: What was Spitfire even doing there? She did pretty much nothing but stand around, even when her flying ability was needed the most to even get water to Cloudsdale in the first place. I'd assume she has about as much wing power as RD, but she just stood there and watched.
It is not a record set by the town if an outsider assists.
At that point Rainbow Dash had already tossed out the idea of setting a record and said that getting the water to Cloudsdale was more important.
If there was an official rule in place about it I doubt that would be enough of a reason to break it.
This brings up an question I have been thinking about, what happens if the ponies fail to do a task such as this or Winter Wrap Up? Are there repercussions for failure or just a backup in place to deal with it if they fail?
At that point Rainbow Dash had already tossed out the idea of setting a record and said that getting the water to Cloudsdale was more important.
If there was an official rule in place about it I doubt that would be enough of a reason to break it.
This brings up an question I have been thinking about, what happens if the ponies fail to do a task such as this or Winter Wrap Up? Are there repercussions for failure or just a backup in place to deal with it if they fail?
Princess celestia will kill all the firstborns, of course.
I'd assume there are repercussions in ecological problems and food shortages. For example in the Winter Wrap-Up song Applejack's first line is "but the food we've stored is running out and we can't grow in this cold".
Fads used to go on for 5+ years. MLP hasn't been around long enough for us to determine if it's a fad or not.
"Fad: a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., especially one followed enthusiastically by a group. "
"A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze."
"A fad is any form of behavior that develops among a large population and is collectively followed with enthusiasm for some period, generally as a result of the behavior's being perceived as novel in some way. A fad is said to "catch on" when the number of people adopting it begins to increase rapidly. The behavior will normally fade quickly once the perception of novelty is gone."
So, No. It's pretty easy to tell it's a fad, you just follow the definitions, like pretty much any other similar term. Good effort, though. Being a Fad isn't a bad thing, a lot of things are fads - No need to make shit up to defend the show, it doesn't need defending from that.
All of those definitions contain some wording that suggests the period of time for a fad is very small such as "temporary," "fade quickly," and "brief period of time." The only reason MLP will fade is when they stop making new episodes. We can pretty much guarantee that is going to happen eventually. Since you consider multiple years still short enough to be a fad, then just about anything people like is a fad. I guess South Park is a fad. It's been going for 16 years, but people will stop caring once it ends.
Also, you know for a fact that even when MLP does end it will take quite a few months, perhaps even a year or so for it to start fading. Did you not see how they carried right through the summer creating so many fan-works without a single new episode? The fandom only intensified.
Pogs were a fad. Tamagotchi was a fad. They were hot for a month or two, perhaps even a matter of weeks, then they disappeared rapidly. One day they were the hottest thing on the block, the next day they were in the bargain basement, and nobody gave a shit.
MLP:FiM has already been around for over a year. It will have three years minimum lifetime if season 3 is for real. Seasons four and more are not even completely out of the question. Then it will fade very slowly as the fan culture squeezes every last drop over the course of another year or so. A fad it is not.
All of those definitions contain some wording that suggests the period of time for a fad is very small such as "temporary," "fade quickly," and "brief period of time." The only reason MLP will fade is when they stop making new episodes. We can pretty much guarantee that is going to happen eventually. Since you consider multiple years still short enough to be a fad, then just about anything people like is a fad. I guess South Park is a fad. It's been going for 16 years, but people will stop caring once it ends.
Yes, I think a great many things have Fads. YoYos, for example - At least, the modern incarnation, we've had yoyos since at least 440 BCE - have been around since the late 1800s, and had their first of many Fads in 1928. It's not about how long the thing itself lasts, it's about the mass popularity. There are still people who play with YoYos all the damned time, Squeezing out every last drop, as you put it, doesn't mean they're not a recurring fad. Or, say, Skateboarding - it's had it's fads, too, in the 80s, and in the early 2000s. It never went away, it just had periods where it was a fad.
Also - The Beatnik movement is considered a fad, and it was around for a fucking decade, and if MLP is around and this incredibly popular that long, I'll eat my goddamn boots.
I'll bet even Beethoven and Michelangelo had their fads, they're just far enough back in history relative to us that we don't really think of it as such.
Also, you know for a fact that even when MLP does end it will take quite a few months, perhaps even a year or so for it to start fading. Did you not see how they carried right through the summer creating so many fan-works without a single new episode? The fandom only intensified.
Looking at many bronies, I can't argue that the fandom intensifying is a good thing. But that said, It's not about the fandom intensifying - Sure, a bunch of hardcore bronies cracked massive fats because there were new ponies. But they're always going to, just like the people in the YoYo example who are still throwing yoyos. But can you tell me how many regular people drifted away because there was a break in it? Because I'd wager that the mainstream popularity took a dip, and it came back in season 2 slightly lower than before, and it will come back lower again, and again, until hasbro is finally beaten down by the law of diminishing returns. And yes, I'm aware of the folly of asking you of all people to tell me about Normal People.
Pogs were a fad. Tamagotchi was a fad. They were hot for a month or two, perhaps even a matter of weeks, then they disappeared rapidly. One day they were the hottest thing on the block, the next day they were in the bargain basement, and nobody gave a shit.
Oh yeah, Pogs. We had Tazos, rather than pogs, but the same concept. God, I can't even remember where I last saw tazos - oh wait, I can, I got some AFL tazos in a packet of chips a little while back, they're sitting over on my bookshelf, because I know a guy who is a hardcore fan, squeezing out every last drop, and I was gonna give them to him, since he collects and plays them. They still have small tournaments around, you know. And aside from that, apparently they're still on-and-off popular with schoolkids, like many other fads.
Shit, now Tamagotchis, that's a tricky one...When was the last release of that, since they vanished...Oh yeah, in 2010, and they're still quite popular here and in asia, in the appropriate age range. I still see ads for them on TV, in fact, and apparently, they have a suprisingly active fanbase.
I keep forgetting, Scott, while you're an extremely intelligent man with a lot of knowlege in a few fields, once it gets outside of either your hobbies/media preferences, your Job, or the world outside of being a nearly-30 computer programmer in New York named Scott Rubin, You're more often than not as clueless and naive as a young child. But without all the sweetness and innocence that makes it cute. But on the upside, You're yet to wake me up by jumping on my chest, so I guess that's a point in your favor.
MLP:FiM has already been around for over a year. It will have three years minimum lifetime if season 3 is for real. Seasons four and more are not even completely out of the question. Then it will fade very slowly as the fan culture squeezes every last drop over the course of another year or so. A fad it is not.
Oh, a Year! That's practically FOREVER. Not like Skateboards, Yoyos, Frisbees, Pogs/Tazos, Tamagotchis, beatniks, Betty Boop, Pyjama parties, foam parties, 8-and-16 bit gaming, Balls-hard 2D platformers, 80s fashion, 70s fashion, 60s fashion, flared pants, Distressed jeans, all of that, they were a flash in the pan, never ever ever seen again. Never ever. Nobody's heard of them at all in our modern internet days.
@ Churba MLPFIM is less a fad, but more of a happy coincidence of factors that had led to self sustainability through fan created content that feeds in on itself. This is true for other properties in recent years, like vocaloid, and Touhou. Ive always treated MLPFIM as the start of a western Touhou or Vocaloid, a property that attracts fans to create around it, and due to the internet and close contact with both the studio, and to some extent, Hasbro's marketing and toy division areas, have led to fan retention because fans feel involved and listened to.
Taking Vocaloid as an example, The collaborative and fan driven content based off Nico Nico Douga is encouraged by Crypton Future Media, the studio whcih owns the copyright to the mascot desings. They even made a site called Piapro, http://piapro.jp/, solely to ease the copyright of the designs and promote fan creation. You may or may not know that in japan, their laws are pretty crazy, and even fan art can be made a copyright offence. Piapro was created to allow such fan content to exist, and uses something like the creative commons. I dont think Crypton is part of the creative commons group so...but the message was clear. Vocaloid owed its success to the fans, and the studio reciprocated instead of giving every one the finger. This example i use to parallel the brony Fandom with Hasbro itself.
For a direct quote from Crypton on this new site and idea: http://www.crypton.co.jp/miku_eng "For a smoother user experience, we have launched our unique licensing system named "Piapro Character License (PCL)", which is basically an equivalent to the Creative Commons license in copyright clearance. By incorporating the PCL with PIAPRO, every creator can set up a situation for ever-more active collaboration and "peer production"
Then we have touhou, whcih i feel is more in line with the more intimate relationship Bronies have with Studio B and DHX media. Touhou is the project of one guy. Zun, and till now he does most of the work himself, the art work, the programming, the music. The popularity of touhou and the large fandom with it, and the creative content that is constantly churned out, is a sight to see, and Zun, and whatever tiny team he has working on it, takes part in the fandom as well, and constantly takes ideas from fans and or fan works. This is the same as the guys in Studio B reading shit on Equestria Daily, and giving shoutouts in the episodes. (Derpy was a noble attempt, but unluckily for all, didnt work out, and why i really disliked that outcome was that it only served to detriment this relationship with the studio, and then Hasbro as a whole.)
I dont think this is a fad, i believe this is what you get when you have three factors converging: Ease of the Internet and a collective and collaborative fandom unrestricted by time and space; A willing and reciprocative parent company knowing that they have something special on their hands, and gives as much leeway as possible to promote it; lastly, an intimate relationship between creators and developers with the fandom, they go out of their way to consider fan ideas and work, to include that into the canon and parent media.
None of the examples stated by churba, Yoyos, skateboarding etc, have had a convergence of these three factors. This is a kind of movement only born and spread through new media and internet past 2000, and as such, i hesitate to use the traditional idea of a "fad" to describe MLPFIM, Vocaloid, and Touhou. Once a critical mass is reached, and as long as the parties involved dont drop the ball, content can be circulated and created constantly in a cycle.
However, all of these three properties are less than a decade old. Touhou and Vocaloid have been around for more than 5 years, with Touhou arguably only reaching prominence come past 2004. Vocaloid took off in 2007 or 2008 if i recall. As such, all i said may not hold water, perhaps it isnt possible to sustain this sort of creative cycle, and we may know in a few years. But until then, ill wait and see.
However, all of these three properties are less than a decade old. Touhou and Vocaloid have been around for more than 5 years, with Touhou arguably only reaching prominence come past 2004. Vocaloid took off in 2007 or 2008 if i recall. As such, all i said may not hold water, perhaps it isnt possible to sustain this sort of creative cycle, and we may know in a few years. But until then, ill wait and see.
Fair call. Just because I'm willing to call it now, maybe a bit early, doesn't mean I expect everyone else to.
You guys are overbroadening the definition of "fad" in an attempt to make a ludicrous point. It seems a common theme in arguments here lately: make a word useless to prove some lukewarm point.
Churba, I think you are operating under a very strange definition and overly broad of "fad." I don't think 8- and 16-bit gaming can be called a fad, for example, since there weren't any 32-bit games when the 8- and 16-bits were at the height of their popularity. If there's nothing else for gamers, that's not a "fad," that's just video games. Likewise, the fashion of a decade is not a fad, it's fashion. Yoyos were a legitimate fad. It was not a part of a larger interest or nerdery - there's really nothing else even very similar to a yoyo.
There was a fad for skateboarding, but I don't think you can say that skateboards are a fad. I still see dozens of skateboards every day all over the UConn campus.
I don't think we can safely label MLP as a fad or not at this point. I do think that it's safe to say that the term fad does not cover everything that was ever popular.
There was a fad for skateboarding, but I don't think you can say that skateboards are a fad. I still see dozens of skateboards every day all over the UConn campus.
That's exactly why I raised them as an example. Because they still exist, they're still around, but they just had a fad associated with them. Like Yoyos, which have endured over time, but have had fads - not having anything else similar doesn't really follow, I'm not sure where you're going with that.
By mentioning fashion styles, I'm trying to allude to the "Retro" craze, where people seem to have been regressing back a few decades in fashion for a while, before moving on to something else.
As with the clothing, with 8-and-16 bit gaming, I'm not refering to the original time, I'm referring to the much more recent retro gaming swell of popularity, which seems to have faded back down somewhat of late, though it's still moderately popular.
That's what I'm saying - I think MLP is basically in it's fad stage right now. It will die down in the future to a much smaller fanbase, and to most people, including many of the fans(though of course, I speak of the more moderate fans, rather than the hardcore obsessives, though there are admittedly plenty of those, not that this is a mark against the show), it will become "Oh hey, remember that pony thing from a few years back?" "Oh yeah, I heard all about that, apparently it wasn't bad. Anyway, Wanna go get a burger? I'm getting kinda hungry."
I will grant that what I did forget is that if you suggest you think anything other than MLP IS THE MOST PERFECT THING EVER AND WILL ENDURE LONGER THAN CHRISTIANTITY USHERING A NEW POST-SCARCITY AGE, then a lot of bronies will go from Sweetness-and-light to Westborough baptist fuckin' church in about a second flat. You're not allowed to say anything bad about the ponies. Or anything which might be perceived as bad. Or that someone might be able to interpret as bad in any way, no matter how tenuous or silly. Fuck it, just either HEIL PONIES, or prepare to get dogpiled.
You guys are overbroadening the definition of "fad" in an attempt to make a ludicrous point. It seems a common theme in arguments here lately: make a word useless to prove some lukewarm point.
And an extremely subjective one, not really worth debating.
Since when has that stopped ANY argument on this forum? It's an ivory tower of the internet, but that doesn't stop people being people, nor is it a particularly high bar.
It seems this is something that happens on the internet when you gather a group of ostensibly intelligent people together - everybody has crazy, silly, or stupid thoughts and ideas, but the difference is that we're apparently intelligent enough to argue for them at length, and too most of the time have too much pride to say "well, okay, yeah, that was stupid", as if having a stupid idea makes us stupid. Because if we're stupid, then we're one of the dirty plebs, one of the, filthy uneducated masses. When in reality, we're just people who know how to talk shit really, really well, and it doesn't really reduce our worth as people if someone else points out that one thing we said was a bit dumb or goofy.
Comments
"A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze."
"A fad is any form of behavior that develops among a large population and is collectively followed with enthusiasm for some period, generally as a result of the behavior's being perceived as novel in some way. A fad is said to "catch on" when the number of people adopting it begins to increase rapidly. The behavior will normally fade quickly once the perception of novelty is gone."
So, No. It's pretty easy to tell it's a fad, you just follow the definitions, like pretty much any other similar term. Good effort, though. Being a Fad isn't a bad thing, a lot of things are fads - No need to make shit up to defend the show, it doesn't need defending from that.
Question though: What was Spitfire even doing there? She did pretty much nothing but stand around, even when her flying ability was needed the most to even get water to Cloudsdale in the first place. I'd assume she has about as much wing power as RD, but she just stood there and watched.
This brings up an question I have been thinking about, what happens if the ponies fail to do a task such as this or Winter Wrap Up? Are there repercussions for failure or just a backup in place to deal with it if they fail?
Also, you know for a fact that even when MLP does end it will take quite a few months, perhaps even a year or so for it to start fading. Did you not see how they carried right through the summer creating so many fan-works without a single new episode? The fandom only intensified.
Pogs were a fad. Tamagotchi was a fad. They were hot for a month or two, perhaps even a matter of weeks, then they disappeared rapidly. One day they were the hottest thing on the block, the next day they were in the bargain basement, and nobody gave a shit.
MLP:FiM has already been around for over a year. It will have three years minimum lifetime if season 3 is for real. Seasons four and more are not even completely out of the question. Then it will fade very slowly as the fan culture squeezes every last drop over the course of another year or so. A fad it is not.
Also - The Beatnik movement is considered a fad, and it was around for a fucking decade, and if MLP is around and this incredibly popular that long, I'll eat my goddamn boots.
I'll bet even Beethoven and Michelangelo had their fads, they're just far enough back in history relative to us that we don't really think of it as such. Looking at many bronies, I can't argue that the fandom intensifying is a good thing. But that said, It's not about the fandom intensifying - Sure, a bunch of hardcore bronies cracked massive fats because there were new ponies. But they're always going to, just like the people in the YoYo example who are still throwing yoyos. But can you tell me how many regular people drifted away because there was a break in it? Because I'd wager that the mainstream popularity took a dip, and it came back in season 2 slightly lower than before, and it will come back lower again, and again, until hasbro is finally beaten down by the law of diminishing returns. And yes, I'm aware of the folly of asking you of all people to tell me about Normal People. Oh yeah, Pogs. We had Tazos, rather than pogs, but the same concept. God, I can't even remember where I last saw tazos - oh wait, I can, I got some AFL tazos in a packet of chips a little while back, they're sitting over on my bookshelf, because I know a guy who is a hardcore fan, squeezing out every last drop, and I was gonna give them to him, since he collects and plays them. They still have small tournaments around, you know. And aside from that, apparently they're still on-and-off popular with schoolkids, like many other fads.
Shit, now Tamagotchis, that's a tricky one...When was the last release of that, since they vanished...Oh yeah, in 2010, and they're still quite popular here and in asia, in the appropriate age range. I still see ads for them on TV, in fact, and apparently, they have a suprisingly active fanbase.
I keep forgetting, Scott, while you're an extremely intelligent man with a lot of knowlege in a few fields, once it gets outside of either your hobbies/media preferences, your Job, or the world outside of being a nearly-30 computer programmer in New York named Scott Rubin, You're more often than not as clueless and naive as a young child. But without all the sweetness and innocence that makes it cute. But on the upside, You're yet to wake me up by jumping on my chest, so I guess that's a point in your favor. Oh, a Year! That's practically FOREVER. Not like Skateboards, Yoyos, Frisbees, Pogs/Tazos, Tamagotchis, beatniks, Betty Boop, Pyjama parties, foam parties, 8-and-16 bit gaming, Balls-hard 2D platformers, 80s fashion, 70s fashion, 60s fashion, flared pants, Distressed jeans, all of that, they were a flash in the pan, never ever ever seen again. Never ever. Nobody's heard of them at all in our modern internet days.
MLPFIM is less a fad, but more of a happy coincidence of factors that had led to self sustainability through fan created content that feeds in on itself. This is true for other properties in recent years, like vocaloid, and Touhou. Ive always treated MLPFIM as the start of a western Touhou or Vocaloid, a property that attracts fans to create around it, and due to the internet and close contact with both the studio, and to some extent, Hasbro's marketing and toy division areas, have led to fan retention because fans feel involved and listened to.
Taking Vocaloid as an example, The collaborative and fan driven content based off Nico Nico Douga is encouraged by Crypton Future Media, the studio whcih owns the copyright to the mascot desings. They even made a site called Piapro, http://piapro.jp/, solely to ease the copyright of the designs and promote fan creation. You may or may not know that in japan, their laws are pretty crazy, and even fan art can be made a copyright offence. Piapro was created to allow such fan content to exist, and uses something like the creative commons. I dont think Crypton is part of the creative commons group so...but the message was clear. Vocaloid owed its success to the fans, and the studio reciprocated instead of giving every one the finger. This example i use to parallel the brony Fandom with Hasbro itself.
For a direct quote from Crypton on this new site and idea: http://www.crypton.co.jp/miku_eng
"For a smoother user experience, we have launched our unique licensing system named "Piapro Character License (PCL)", which is basically an equivalent to the Creative Commons license in copyright clearance. By incorporating the PCL with PIAPRO, every creator can set up a situation for ever-more active collaboration and "peer production"
Then we have touhou, whcih i feel is more in line with the more intimate relationship Bronies have with Studio B and DHX media. Touhou is the project of one guy. Zun, and till now he does most of the work himself, the art work, the programming, the music. The popularity of touhou and the large fandom with it, and the creative content that is constantly churned out, is a sight to see, and Zun, and whatever tiny team he has working on it, takes part in the fandom as well, and constantly takes ideas from fans and or fan works. This is the same as the guys in Studio B reading shit on Equestria Daily, and giving shoutouts in the episodes. (Derpy was a noble attempt, but unluckily for all, didnt work out, and why i really disliked that outcome was that it only served to detriment this relationship with the studio, and then Hasbro as a whole.)
I dont think this is a fad, i believe this is what you get when you have three factors converging: Ease of the Internet and a collective and collaborative fandom unrestricted by time and space; A willing and reciprocative parent company knowing that they have something special on their hands, and gives as much leeway as possible to promote it; lastly, an intimate relationship between creators and developers with the fandom, they go out of their way to consider fan ideas and work, to include that into the canon and parent media.
None of the examples stated by churba, Yoyos, skateboarding etc, have had a convergence of these three factors. This is a kind of movement only born and spread through new media and internet past 2000, and as such, i hesitate to use the traditional idea of a "fad" to describe MLPFIM, Vocaloid, and Touhou. Once a critical mass is reached, and as long as the parties involved dont drop the ball, content can be circulated and created constantly in a cycle.
However, all of these three properties are less than a decade old. Touhou and Vocaloid have been around for more than 5 years, with Touhou arguably only reaching prominence come past 2004. Vocaloid took off in 2007 or 2008 if i recall. As such, all i said may not hold water, perhaps it isnt possible to sustain this sort of creative cycle, and we may know in a few years. But until then, ill wait and see.
It's as categorization to be made in retrospect.
There was a fad for skateboarding, but I don't think you can say that skateboards are a fad. I still see dozens of skateboards every day all over the UConn campus.
I don't think we can safely label MLP as a fad or not at this point. I do think that it's safe to say that the term fad does not cover everything that was ever popular.
By mentioning fashion styles, I'm trying to allude to the "Retro" craze, where people seem to have been regressing back a few decades in fashion for a while, before moving on to something else.
As with the clothing, with 8-and-16 bit gaming, I'm not refering to the original time, I'm referring to the much more recent retro gaming swell of popularity, which seems to have faded back down somewhat of late, though it's still moderately popular.
That's what I'm saying - I think MLP is basically in it's fad stage right now. It will die down in the future to a much smaller fanbase, and to most people, including many of the fans(though of course, I speak of the more moderate fans, rather than the hardcore obsessives, though there are admittedly plenty of those, not that this is a mark against the show), it will become "Oh hey, remember that pony thing from a few years back?" "Oh yeah, I heard all about that, apparently it wasn't bad. Anyway, Wanna go get a burger? I'm getting kinda hungry."
I will grant that what I did forget is that if you suggest you think anything other than MLP IS THE MOST PERFECT THING EVER AND WILL ENDURE LONGER THAN CHRISTIANTITY USHERING A NEW POST-SCARCITY AGE, then a lot of bronies will go from Sweetness-and-light to Westborough baptist fuckin' church in about a second flat. You're not allowed to say anything bad about the ponies. Or anything which might be perceived as bad. Or that someone might be able to interpret as bad in any way, no matter how tenuous or silly. Fuck it, just either HEIL PONIES, or prepare to get dogpiled. What do you mean, Lately?
It seems this is something that happens on the internet when you gather a group of ostensibly intelligent people together - everybody has crazy, silly, or stupid thoughts and ideas, but the difference is that we're apparently intelligent enough to argue for them at length, and too most of the time have too much pride to say "well, okay, yeah, that was stupid", as if having a stupid idea makes us stupid. Because if we're stupid, then we're one of the dirty plebs, one of the, filthy uneducated masses. When in reality, we're just people who know how to talk shit really, really well, and it doesn't really reduce our worth as people if someone else points out that one thing we said was a bit dumb or goofy.
EDIT - Amusingly ninja'd.