That really doesn't mean much at all, though, because everyone's brain chemistry is different; it's like telling someone to buy 34 waist pants because they always fit you. Antidepressants are really just a matter of finding the correct drug for a specific person.
QFT -- as much as I would love to say WXL is for everyone, it's not. I have friends who've responded in a manner completely opposite of myself to various drugs. But WXL is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor and typically functions to boost libido. Ohhh yeaahhh!
But WXL is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor and typically functions to boost libido. Ohhh yeaahhh!
I'm on the receiving end of that particular side effect right now due to Lexapro. As a result, I'm actually going kind of nuts without a steady girlfriend. No FWBs at school to ring up and help me with my medication concerns either. :$
But WXL is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor and typically functions to boost libido. Ohhh yeaahhh!
I'm on the receiving end of that particular side effect right now due to Lexapro. As a result, I'm actually going kind of nuts without a steady girlfriend. No FWBs at school to ring up and help me with my medication concerns either. :$
That really doesn't mean much at all, though, because everyone's brain chemistry is different; it's like telling someone to buy 34 waist pants because they always fit you. Antidepressants are really just a matter of finding the correct drug for a specific person.
Damned right. Being put on the wrong medication can really fuck you up, if it's severe enough, it's like you're an entirely different person wrapped in someone else's skin, with a lifetime of memories that not longer quite make sense to you, because they feel like they happened to someone else. Because, in effect, they did.
As some of the older guys here might remember, I was that one 15-year old kid who could really only watch upbeat/ecchi anime to curb my depression. Although I could appreciate the complexity and philosophy of shows like Eva, Akira, etc., I couldn't stand to watch them as they would bring in the wave of depressing feelings, moods, etc. that would last for weeks. Some might recall I made an entire thread about it. I was on medication to, not to much avail. Now, 3 years later, I'm still fighting with mild depression and a fair bit of anxiety, but occasionally I'll have a few weeks worth of heavy shit and then it'll subside randomly. And for the last year, I can say that I can fully appreciate any work I've ever encountered and it not truly bring me down. Not to say it can't shed a few tears (various anime movies, The Last Lecture, etc.), but nothing has SERIOUSLY brought me down, which I'm proud of.
I've been off work, due to severely breaking one of my toes, for the last month- which has been great, because it's given me enough "me" time to satisfy me, and allowed me to do things I almost forgot since before even having a job (waking up being able to do anything I want for a whole week, sleeping in so much til my schedule is all backwards, marathoning anime and CS, etc.) Overall, I was okay until just a few weeks ago. I'm not on any medication anymore, and I'd like to keep it that way if it would help, but honestly, my depression, anxiety, and OCD-like tendencies have escalated lately quite noticeably. I just started my first year of college, and of course the nervousness of that has driven me crazy, although compared to others I do quite well- at least externally, that is. I start back work tomorrow, and I'm having anxiety about that as well, because I'm not quite used to it yet to a degree of which I'm comfortable with (I was only working about a month before I was injured).
Anyways, I could rant about my situation more, but I've been able to vent enough to relieve some stress. And I want to say something important to me. Throughout the six years I've been listening to the show (I'm in the '06 club), it's been a surprisingly good emotional steady for me. Part of it is nostalgia, part of it is genuine love of the show and what Rym and Scott do, and another major part of it is all of you- the forum, and the names and personalities that I've become so acquainted with. I love you guys, the show, and everything about it. Whenever I've been feeling stressed or depressed lately (as well as in the past), I'd just listen to some Geeknights and browse the forums, and it would help more than a lot of other things, and it still does. Although for some periods I mainly lurked, there's not been any time where GN and the FRC forums haven't been a rock for me, in every sense.
I'm not sure whether I need to tough it out until I establish a routine or start looking for a different medicine. I could deal with depression if I could at least get the anxiety and OCD under better control- I feel like it's only just out of my control without medicine, but some days are worse than others.
TL;DR- I just wanted to share the situation I'm in and the genuine appreciation for all of the members here and their individual situations, regardless of depression. Thank you for being who you are and making such a great impact on my life.
EDIT: To give people a better image of my life right now- still maintain great contact with my best friends, a group of about 8, that's not going away. Happy about that. Been in a steady relationship for a year as of today- happy about that. Dealing with a new job with a meh manager and bleh but easy work- not so happy, but tolerable. Started college at local community college- it's not my first option, but it's okay, I like the flexibility and classes themselves, but next year I will either be attending OU or RIT, because that is where I truly want to go. So college situation- okay, but thankfully only going to last for this year. Stress from college and my job are the main factors, which is making me relapse as far as anxiety/depression/OCD, which are the main stressors right now themselves.
My roommate has been suffering with depression for quite a while. And its been pretty hard lately. She just told me that if she was the least be religious she would have already killed herself, and her family is the only think keeping her from doing it. I just don't know what to do.
Nothing you can do, except encourage her to get help. Depression isn't something someone else can decide to treat you for, barring institutionalization.
I know, but its not just a chemical imbalance for her. She's been through a lot of shit in the past couple years and basically doesn't feel happy anywhere. Her mum died a couple of years ago and her dad moved pretty much as soon as she moved out. Most of her friends and family are scattered across the globe and those that are here are soon moving away. Things are just not going well and I hate to be the douche bag that just sits there knowing she's miserable. I've tried talking to her but other than an occasional depressive rant she won't really open up to me.
I'll start this off with IANAD & IANAneuroscientist.
From what I read, it's not about chemical imbalance alone. The brain doesn't handle stress hormones appropriately, which causes brain damage to the parts dealing with stress hormones, which in turn leads to more damage. Brain scans of chronically depressed patients resemble healthy brains of much older patients. So all you need is to hit a certain tipping point stress-wise, and your brain becomes increasingly vulnerable to stress and less capable of coping. That's why current medication is flawed in that it doesn't solve the root of the problem. However, if successful, it can halt the deterioration process and allow the brain to start healing itself (which modern research shows it can in fact do) and for the person to develop appropriate coping mechanisms (why therapy is so beneficial).
Sometimes I wonder why there's a stigma against continuous use of psychmeds, as opposed to other meds (say Insulin for diabetics, or immunosuppressants for lupus) that keep the body from destroying itself. Is it rooted in the idea of a creator? I know that when I stopped believing I was made in the image of god & started believing that depression hadn't completely been selected out... I no longer felt bad for relying on meds.
The stigma is actually quite logical, even though its wrong. It's rooted in the fact that the brain is a weird place that controls just about everything you do and we don't understand it as well as the rest of the body. That's why it scares people.
I've tried to be there but she won't really open up to me. I mean she's said what's wrong but I can't sit down and talk with her. Lately she's barely gotten out of bed. Now she's talking about giving up on school and moving back to Memphis, even though she hates it there. I hear her talk on the phone and she keeps saying she has no one and I'm like "I'M RIGHT HERE, LET ME HELP!" but apparently there's nothing I can do. *Sigh*
So, David Foster Wallace spend a lot of time trying to describe depression in Infinite Jest in such a way that people who have never been depressed (i.e., the "Stop being sad!" crowd) can understand exactly what depression is like. This is the best description I've read yet:
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flame yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don‘t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."
I feel like I could write essays about some of the experiences I've had helping a good friend who has depression. However, I think I'll keep it to just a question for now, just so this is less about me getting stuff off my chest and more about actually trying to help someone: for those struggling with depression and/or severe anxiety, what helps you to hear the most when you really need to talk to someone?
When talking to my friend about the various problems and feelings she experiences, I have a bad tendency to try to want to "fix" everything, and I know this isn't the right approach to take because it can be belittling ("Oh, if you just tried this you wouldn't be so sad all the time!" or some such) and short-sighted. But when I don't have potential solutions to offer or things for her to try, I find myself coming up short on meaningful things to say. It's one thing to say "Just try to be there for the person, listen, and remind them that they are loved and cared for". But I find there's only so far you can take that before it just starts feeling like you're repeating empty platitudes. I fear the other person feels the same way, too. In fact she has outright stated a few times in regards to me and others that responses like "that sucks " or "sorry you feel that way" and the like are not reassuring since at this point they all just feel pat, like the other person doesn't really care.
So I really want to get better at giving meaningful responses that show I actually care and am listening without it just being an endless stream of "It's okay, bb "/"I think you're a great person"/"I wish things were better for you"/"*hugs*". Are there any sorts of things that help signal to you when a person really wants to help or that make you feel you're really being listened to?
If you don't have advice just ask questions, and don't be afraid if they're difficult or awkward. It will help both of you understand her thought processes when things are out of whack.
As a person with depression who has sometimes taxed her friends too hard with her problems, I will tell you flat out that the sort of things you've been saying are not wrong or inadequate. There is really only so much our friends can do for us when depression sets upon us, and asking for any more than they can reasonably give would be trying to substitute them for therapists.
When I am depressed, what I really want to hear from my friends is that they love me, are here for me, will not leave me, and believe in my ability to come out of this on the other side. However--even though these are my ideals, when I am at my very worst these words are simply not enough to pull me out of it. They may even feel unsatisfactory, even though I realistically know that I can't ask any more from my friends. It's at this point when I need to take proactive steps for myself, or see a professional. I may not mind having friends suggest this for me, but every person is different.
I agree that asking questions might be a good way to go. For the people who just need someone to talk to, having an outlet is a great thing. Just don't drive yourself crazy in the process. In the end that'll be bad for the both of you.
I understand wanting to "fix" things for your friends, which is even why you might want to find something better to say. But it sounds to me like you're already doing what you can in a realistic sense. People really do have to fix themselves in the end, but that doesn't mean that others can't -help- them to fix themselves.
Coming off an hour-long panic attack. I'm still medicated, but it was very obviously a breakthrough event. I'm all achy and exhausted and worried that it's going to happen again. Probably going to have to call my doc about getting a standing script for an anxiolytic.
Fun fact: You can actually carry a conversation fairly well while having a long-duration panic attack! It's just really draining.
Coming off an hour-long panic attack. I'm still medicated, but it was very obviously a breakthrough event. I'm all achy and exhausted and worried that it's going to happen again. Probably going to have to call my doc about getting a standing script for an anxiolytic.
Fun fact: You can actually carry a conversation fairly well while having a long-duration panic attack! It's just really draining.
Panic attacks suck. Once a generic AD triggered a really bad one (I don't know for how long, just thought I was going to die), so I just lay down, focused on breathing slowly and trying to reduce my 160+ bpm heart rate. My friends were terrified. All I could manage to say was, "Be ready to take me to the hospital, thanks."
Coming off an hour-long panic attack. I'm still medicated, but it was very obviously a breakthrough event.
Hey, at least there's that. I had an anxiety attack a few nights ago for no apparent reason, and it lasted several hours. I ended up putting on my favorite audiobook just to listen to comforting vocals to try to relax and get to sleep.
Yeah, I sat through a lecture and was breathing so rapidly it was more like the kind of low putt-putt hum of an MG42. Pretty sure my friend Pat knew something was wrong and tried to engage me about it, and I just carried on like there was no problem. Terrible.
I hate panic attacks. They are very uncomfortable. I can talk to people and appear normal during panic attacks, it probably usually seems like I am cold and need to put on a sweater. I shiver a little bit, and get more quiet, but I can usually talk through it.
Well, smarter people know when they ought to be depressed, I imagine, which is pretty much all the time lately, but I participate in plenty of geeky forums and this one is certainly the most concentrated I've seen.
Well, smarter people know when they ought to be depressed, I imagine
That's not how depression works, though. During an episode, I can rationalize my situation all I want. Even with full knowledge of how okay the situation is, I still can't feel anything save for the stabbing pain of emotional absence.
It's also possible to sometimes be non-clinically depressed despite suffering clinical depression, I'd imagine. And what if you're constantly depressed, but it's situational?
It's also possible that people on the forum feel more comfortable being "out". Many people will simply give you the good-ol bootstraps talk, or say things to the effect of "Sometimes, I'm sad too, but I'm not such a pansy about it."
Comments
As some of the older guys here might remember, I was that one 15-year old kid who could really only watch upbeat/ecchi anime to curb my depression. Although I could appreciate the complexity and philosophy of shows like Eva, Akira, etc., I couldn't stand to watch them as they would bring in the wave of depressing feelings, moods, etc. that would last for weeks. Some might recall I made an entire thread about it. I was on medication to, not to much avail. Now, 3 years later, I'm still fighting with mild depression and a fair bit of anxiety, but occasionally I'll have a few weeks worth of heavy shit and then it'll subside randomly. And for the last year, I can say that I can fully appreciate any work I've ever encountered and it not truly bring me down. Not to say it can't shed a few tears (various anime movies, The Last Lecture, etc.), but nothing has SERIOUSLY brought me down, which I'm proud of.
I've been off work, due to severely breaking one of my toes, for the last month- which has been great, because it's given me enough "me" time to satisfy me, and allowed me to do things I almost forgot since before even having a job (waking up being able to do anything I want for a whole week, sleeping in so much til my schedule is all backwards, marathoning anime and CS, etc.) Overall, I was okay until just a few weeks ago. I'm not on any medication anymore, and I'd like to keep it that way if it would help, but honestly, my depression, anxiety, and OCD-like tendencies have escalated lately quite noticeably. I just started my first year of college, and of course the nervousness of that has driven me crazy, although compared to others I do quite well- at least externally, that is. I start back work tomorrow, and I'm having anxiety about that as well, because I'm not quite used to it yet to a degree of which I'm comfortable with (I was only working about a month before I was injured).
Anyways, I could rant about my situation more, but I've been able to vent enough to relieve some stress. And I want to say something important to me. Throughout the six years I've been listening to the show (I'm in the '06 club), it's been a surprisingly good emotional steady for me. Part of it is nostalgia, part of it is genuine love of the show and what Rym and Scott do, and another major part of it is all of you- the forum, and the names and personalities that I've become so acquainted with. I love you guys, the show, and everything about it. Whenever I've been feeling stressed or depressed lately (as well as in the past), I'd just listen to some Geeknights and browse the forums, and it would help more than a lot of other things, and it still does. Although for some periods I mainly lurked, there's not been any time where GN and the FRC forums haven't been a rock for me, in every sense.
I'm not sure whether I need to tough it out until I establish a routine or start looking for a different medicine. I could deal with depression if I could at least get the anxiety and OCD under better control- I feel like it's only just out of my control without medicine, but some days are worse than others.
TL;DR- I just wanted to share the situation I'm in and the genuine appreciation for all of the members here and their individual situations, regardless of depression. Thank you for being who you are and making such a great impact on my life.
EDIT: To give people a better image of my life right now- still maintain great contact with my best friends, a group of about 8, that's not going away. Happy about that. Been in a steady relationship for a year as of today- happy about that. Dealing with a new job with a meh manager and bleh but easy work- not so happy, but tolerable. Started college at local community college- it's not my first option, but it's okay, I like the flexibility and classes themselves, but next year I will either be attending OU or RIT, because that is where I truly want to go. So college situation- okay, but thankfully only going to last for this year. Stress from college and my job are the main factors, which is making me relapse as far as anxiety/depression/OCD, which are the main stressors right now themselves.
From what I read, it's not about chemical imbalance alone. The brain doesn't handle stress hormones appropriately, which causes brain damage to the parts dealing with stress hormones, which in turn leads to more damage. Brain scans of chronically depressed patients resemble healthy brains of much older patients. So all you need is to hit a certain tipping point stress-wise, and your brain becomes increasingly vulnerable to stress and less capable of coping.
That's why current medication is flawed in that it doesn't solve the root of the problem. However, if successful, it can halt the deterioration process and allow the brain to start healing itself (which modern research shows it can in fact do) and for the person to develop appropriate coping mechanisms (why therapy is so beneficial).
Sometimes I wonder why there's a stigma against continuous use of psychmeds, as opposed to other meds (say Insulin for diabetics, or immunosuppressants for lupus) that keep the body from destroying itself. Is it rooted in the idea of a creator? I know that when I stopped believing I was made in the image of god & started believing that depression hadn't completely been selected out... I no longer felt bad for relying on meds.
"The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn't do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life's assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire's flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It's not desiring the fall; it's terror of the flame yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don‘t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You'd have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling."
When talking to my friend about the various problems and feelings she experiences, I have a bad tendency to try to want to "fix" everything, and I know this isn't the right approach to take because it can be belittling ("Oh, if you just tried this you wouldn't be so sad all the time!" or some such) and short-sighted. But when I don't have potential solutions to offer or things for her to try, I find myself coming up short on meaningful things to say. It's one thing to say "Just try to be there for the person, listen, and remind them that they are loved and cared for". But I find there's only so far you can take that before it just starts feeling like you're repeating empty platitudes. I fear the other person feels the same way, too. In fact she has outright stated a few times in regards to me and others that responses like "that sucks
So I really want to get better at giving meaningful responses that show I actually care and am listening without it just being an endless stream of "It's okay, bb
When I am depressed, what I really want to hear from my friends is that they love me, are here for me, will not leave me, and believe in my ability to come out of this on the other side. However--even though these are my ideals, when I am at my very worst these words are simply not enough to pull me out of it. They may even feel unsatisfactory, even though I realistically know that I can't ask any more from my friends. It's at this point when I need to take proactive steps for myself, or see a professional. I may not mind having friends suggest this for me, but every person is different.
I agree that asking questions might be a good way to go. For the people who just need someone to talk to, having an outlet is a great thing. Just don't drive yourself crazy in the process. In the end that'll be bad for the both of you.
I understand wanting to "fix" things for your friends, which is even why you might want to find something better to say. But it sounds to me like you're already doing what you can in a realistic sense. People really do have to fix themselves in the end, but that doesn't mean that others can't -help- them to fix themselves.
Fun fact: You can actually carry a conversation fairly well while having a long-duration panic attack! It's just really draining.
I can talk to people and appear normal during panic attacks, it probably usually seems like I am cold and need to put on a sweater. I shiver a little bit, and get more quiet, but I can usually talk through it.