I'm going to marry my computer because it understands me, and kniws all of my favorite websites.
I don't know if you were referencing it or not, but this Bad Religion song has never been more relevant. This video isn't the best, so if you can find it on Spotify or whatever, do that instead.
If I encounter another me, we must fight to the death. There can be only one. And if they don't immediately fight to the death, they're not a me. And if they do fight me to the death, and they were not a me, they were going to kill me! It was self defense!
How do you know who's compatible or not until you try it out?
I don't. But I'm pretty sure I'm incompatible with the person who would throw video games in the trash. I'm also very confident that if I was close enough to such a person that I would marry them, that I would know whether or not they were that kind of person.
Simple Question for Scott.
Would you have a relationship with a female version or clone of yourself?
Ok, sure thing Pete. But how does having one significant other of the opposite sex who also provides the sexy times bring these challenges in a way that having close friends and family does not? What is so valuable about such a relationship that I should be willing to make a stupid life decision, or form that relationship with an incompatible person?
Other than biological desires, why should I make it such a high priority to find such a person? Rather than maintain my plan of taking an opportunity if a person appears, but not putting any effort into seeking someone out. Why would another person?
Yah I don't think anyone's particularly advocating doing dumb shit for a relationship, just sort of saying why it happens. I think a big reason you can't get on the level is cause you have a super broad definition of "stupid life decision" and a totally narrow definition of "compatible person." It's not stupid to change a little bit for a relationship, we spend our entire time on Mother Gaia changing, why not do it for someone who's pretty cool. It is stupid though, to sacrifice significant things for little reward for a person who's quite shit. You seem to have a super duper fine line drawn between the two, I think most of us have a pretty big gap there.
Also, life partners are definitely more of a "challenging entity" because, well typically at least, you share your lifespace with them. Like you go to bed with + wake up with them, not much alone time. I think it's hella cool though cause I feel some crazy melding shit going on w/ my fiance. Feels like strength!! Power rangers combine type of stuff.
But also though I totally agree w/ the fact that there's literally no reason for people to continue following the biological imperative for procreating. It really doesn't need to be a high priority, and people shouldn't front, I'm sure a lot of us who are in relationships originally got there because we wanted to "get our freak on." But if you really want to talk about reasons for things, I just gotta say there's legit no reason for doing a single damn thing ever unless you're religious and whatnot. A single person and a married couple wind up the same way ~in the end~ So yeah, might as well just do whatever the hell, but just don't be dumb about it.
Ok, sure thing Pete. But how does having one significant other of the opposite sex who also provides the sexy times bring these challenges in a way that having close friends and family does not? What is so valuable about such a relationship that I should be willing to make a stupid life decision, or form that relationship with an incompatible person?
Other than biological desires, why should I make it such a high priority to find such a person? Rather than maintain my plan of taking an opportunity if a person appears, but not putting any effort into seeking someone out. Why would another person?
Yah I don't think anyone's particularly advocating doing dumb shit for a relationship, just sort of saying why it happens. I think a big reason you can't get on the level is cause you have a super broad definition of "stupid life decision" and a totally narrow definition of "compatible person." It's not stupid to change a little bit for a relationship, we spend our entire time on Mother Gaia changing, why not do it for someone who's pretty cool. It is stupid though, to sacrifice significant things for little reward for a person who's quite shit. You seem to have a super duper fine line drawn between the two, I think most of us have a pretty big gap there.
Obviously nobody is advocating it, but I've seen lots of people do it! I just want to know what these people in these failed marriages were thinking at the beginning. How did they not see things coming? Maybe they did see it coming. If they saw it coming, why didn't they do something earlier? Maybe they did act as early as they saw it coming. What of the people who live with it currently, it's not even coming, it's arrived. Why do they stick with it? Why do they tolerate it? These are the kinds of questions I'm asking and not getting answers for.
That IBM guy who has a wife who he has to hide Cowboy Bebop DVDs from. Is he just meek? What's his deal? What is going on in his mind? How does he feel about his life? How did he feel at the beginning?
Obviously you are going to change for in a relationship. Every person you meet will change you. Every experience you have as a person changes you. It's impossible not to change. When you spend a ton of time with a person, you absorb some of them and vice versa. That's just how people work.
But that kind of change isn't even conscious. It just happens. The thing that I'm questioning is how can you spend so much time with someone and grow apart from them? I imagine that if I spend enough actual time interacting with anyone that we would unavoidably grow closer. I've never had it go in the reverse. Closeness has always been proportional to time spent together, at least for me. I only seem to grow apart from people when they physically are apart.
The other thing is that sometimes someone is so far apart that they demand some sort of change that isn't the subconscious kind. It's the explicit giving orders kind. The "no you won't go to that geeky convention because I don't want you to" kind. How did you even pick a person like that in the first place? If they started out awesome, how did they turn not awesome? How could it possibly get to such a bad place?
Some people are very good at lying. Have you never read a news story about someone you know and not believed it because it was counter to what you knew about them?
Some people are very good at lying. Have you never read a news story about someone you know and not believed it because it was counter to what you knew about them?
I doubt I've ever been lied to to my face by someone I knew and not realized it. Whether I cared is one thing, but seeing a bald-faced lie? Trivial.
Some people are very good at lying. Have you never read a news story about someone you know and not believed it because it was counter to what you knew about them?
I doubt I've ever been lied to to my face by someone I knew and not realized it. Whether I cared is one thing, but seeing a bald-faced lie? Trivial.
Perhaps I have been trained by Rym's lying ways. Perhaps I am a gullible fool. But I believe it is very difficult to lie to me and get away with it.
It also begets another question. Why would someone lie so much?
Ok, sure thing Pete. But how does having one significant other of the opposite sex who also provides the sexy times bring these challenges in a way that having close friends and family does not? What is so valuable about such a relationship that I should be willing to make a stupid life decision, or form that relationship with an incompatible person?
Other than biological desires, why should I make it such a high priority to find such a person? Rather than maintain my plan of taking an opportunity if a person appears, but not putting any effort into seeking someone out. Why would another person?
Yah I don't think anyone's particularly advocating doing dumb shit for a relationship, just sort of saying why it happens. I think a big reason you can't get on the level is cause you have a super broad definition of "stupid life decision" and a totally narrow definition of "compatible person." It's not stupid to change a little bit for a relationship, we spend our entire time on Mother Gaia changing, why not do it for someone who's pretty cool. It is stupid though, to sacrifice significant things for little reward for a person who's quite shit. You seem to have a super duper fine line drawn between the two, I think most of us have a pretty big gap there.
Obviously nobody is advocating it, but I've seen lots of people do it! I just want to know what these people in these failed marriages were thinking at the beginning. How did they not see things coming? Maybe they did see it coming. If they saw it coming, why didn't they do something earlier? Maybe they did act as early as they saw it coming. What of the people who live with it currently, it's not even coming, it's arrived. Why do they stick with it? Why do they tolerate it? These are the kinds of questions I'm asking and not getting answers for.
That IBM guy who has a wife who he has to hide Cowboy Bebop DVDs from. Is he just meek? What's his deal? What is going on in his mind? How does he feel about his life? How did he feel at the beginning?
Obviously you are going to change for in a relationship. Every person you meet will change you. Every experience you have as a person changes you. It's impossible not to change. When you spend a ton of time with a person, you absorb some of them and vice versa. That's just how people work.
But that kind of change isn't even conscious. It just happens. The thing that I'm questioning is how can you spend so much time with someone and grow apart from them? I imagine that if I spend enough actual time interacting with anyone that we would unavoidably grow closer. I've never had it go in the reverse. Closeness has always been proportional to time spent together, at least for me. I only seem to grow apart from people when they physically are apart.
The other thing is that sometimes someone is so far apart that they demand some sort of change that isn't the subconscious kind. It's the explicit giving orders kind. The "no you won't go to that geeky convention because I don't want you to" kind. How did you even pick a person like that in the first place? If they started out awesome, how did they turn not awesome? How could it possibly get to such a bad place?
I think it's pretty simplistic, actually. You keep hoping that the person will change, and keep pushing down the doubts for whatever reason. Maybe there was a lot of puppy love at the beginning and you hope that that will come back somehow. Maybe you're not as confident that it's not YOU who is making things awkward and wrong. Maybe you are just being meek and the other person is not so meek.
Scott, I think you know the reasons. You know enough about psychology to know why people stay in bad things. Or do you really not? I'm not sure what your growing up experiences were like.
I worked in a legal aid firm that handled a lot of pro bono divorces. And a lot of domestic violence civil cases. The reasons the people stayed in it so long was usually not because they were dumb but because they were fooling themselves for some reason or another. They thought they could change the other person. They thought that things would work out if they just gave it time, or gave the other person some space.
That's a lot of it, though. You just start thinking "Maybe we aren't getting along well because we're in each other's hair too much." and start going and sitting in front of the computer instead of in front of the TV with the SO. Or instead of going for a walk, or instead of talking.
I'm not sure what's going through the IBM guy's head, honestly. That's a level of deceit that is larger than I am. I do know that at first with my relationship with Katie, I tried to hide some of my geekiness. It was because she was all outdoorsy and shit, and I thought she'd just see me as a nerd and lose interest. I dunno how long I thought that would go on for, but eventually I talked to her about some of the geekier stuff. It was about as much of a non-issue as something can be, actually. She doesn't nerd out as much as I do, but that's okay. She can appreciate the jokes and whatnot, and she can enjoy the anime that I enjoy, and enjoy the games.
I even have thoughts, being an intelligent person and prone to overthinking things, as to what things will be like in 10 years. Or more. Do I think we'll grow apart? I don't think so. We handle conflicts similarly, we talk things through rationally and logically, we have shared morals and goals, and we share something deeper than interests. We share, for the lack of a better term, a purpose. I think that will see us through the tough times to come. It's seen us through tough times currently.
But maybe the IBM guy's wife is domineering. Maybe he started dating her and she started dominating the relationship, so he just found it easier to say "Sure" and keep her happy than get out of it. It isn't logical, but people often aren't.
Some people are very good at lying. Have you never read a news story about someone you know and not believed it because it was counter to what you knew about them?
I doubt I've ever been lied to to my face by someone I knew and not realized it. Whether I cared is one thing, but seeing a bald-faced lie? Trivial.
Perhaps I have been trained by Rym's lying ways. Perhaps I am a gullible fool. But I believe it is very difficult to lie to me and get away with it.
It also begets another question. Why would someone lie so much?
Fear. Fear of rejection, fear of ridicule, fear of the unknown reactions of someone else whose opinion makes sense to you.
Slight personality changes can verrry easily massively compound with super massive life changes, especially things that are daaamn hard to really accurately prepare for.... like children especially. Even smallish, typical relationship moves like moving in together can wreak havok. Shit. dont forget some of the potentially nasty mental effects of just straight up aging too! Like I had said before, you can accomplish a lot of goals w/ a good partner, but this is bound to introduce some things you simpl wont see coming.
I mean honestly, IBM dude mostly just had no nards to begin w/, but a lot of times shit legit simply doesnt work out cause the love-house that seemed to be so stable couldnt stand up to an earthquake. Think of the concept of a "no fault" divorce, no one has to actuallu do anything wrong for differences to spring up. All it takes is some unexpected heavy shit.
Also I firmly believe the "sticking with it" thing is just people being too weak to do a hard thing. If everything is just so crappy and you hate your partner, theres no excuse for sticking it out... even kids... wait actually, especially no excuse if there are kids.
So you guys are saying that these people are unrealistically optimistic, lie to themselves, and/or are cowards?
Actually funny that you mention my growing up experiences. I think that is a large part of my lack of understanding. My parents are just chill normal people, and there's not so much conflict. My family completely lacks all the domestic craziness I read about, and I do not take it for granted one bit. I fully recognize and appreciate the rareness of having a "normal" family. Obviously is not as perfect as a fake TV family, but it's as non-crazy as it can realistically be. Of course there are small dramas, but no insane dramas whatsoever.
Not just my parents though, there is very little drama in my entire family. The closest divorce to me is my mom's brother, who is "the weird uncle." The only thing we really have to deal with is people dying, which is normal. Father time is undefeated.
But yeah, my mom collects crazy baskets. Dad doesn't give a shit. I mean, he might make good natured jokes about the baskets, but he would never in a million years try to stop my mom from doing what she likes, no matter how stupid he thinks it is. Dad's watching football. She doesn't really care. But never in a million years would she try to prevent us from watching the game. Actually, she's probably going to make some special Pot Roast for the game on Sunday. And likewise for me, no matter what nerdy shit I liked, my parents might tell me it was stupid, and they were often right, but they would still let me get Magic: The Gathering cards or Pogs or other stupid shit.
And despite these varying interests, there were still lots of things in common. You put on a Queen concert DVD and you could pack the living room. You bust out Apples to Apples and there will be much laughing in the dining room. If you come over, do not open any photo albums, because you'll be stuck there for four hours with people filling your ear with crazy stories.
If there is a problem, people just say it. For example, my grandma really needs hearing aids. She doesn't want them for some reason. Every single person in the family just straight up gives her the business about it every time we see her. Grandma, go to the ear doctor! No passive aggressive bullshit, no stupid fighting, no drama. She still hasn't gone to the ear doctor, though...
There are actually crazy people in the extended family. Like my mom has some crazy cousins out in Long Island. I think one of my grandfathers had a brother or brothers I don't remember meeting who may have started families far away that we are related to. But we just don't talk to those people or try. If there's a crazy person, we just drop them by the side of the road. The weird uncle I mentioned previously I think used to be crazier when I was younger. I actually remember the first time I met him I think perhaps because he wasn't on speaking terms at earlier times. He's recently been somewhat less crazy, and has appeared more often.
So while I know that these extreme family dramas are quite common, from reading Fark, I actually don't understand them all that well. I can understand boyfriend/girlfriend drama. You don't know the person that well. It's still early in the relationship. You just met this person. I still have a hard time understanding how you could know someone for so long, be so close to them that you marry them, and then it's still fucked the fuck up? Really?
Optimism has literally nothing to do with things that are unexpected. Assuming you'll have a job from one week to the next isnt optimistic when theres no cause to believe anything is wrong, nor is it dumb or short sighted. Same goes for thinking your partner can actually make children; lots of couples have mad problems when they find out this isnt the case, whereas the logic of statistics is well on their side.
Actually funny that you mention my growing up experiences. I think that is a large part of my lack of understanding. My parents are just chill normal people, and there's not so much conflict. My family completely lacks all the domestic craziness I read about, and I do not take it for granted one bit. I fully recognize and appreciate the rareness of having a "normal" family. Obviously is not as perfect as a fake TV family, but it's as non-crazy as it can realistically be. Of course there are small dramas, but no insane dramas whatsoever.
I highlight this paragraph because your family sounds almost exactly like mine. I don't even have a divorce in the extended family. The worst that ever happened was that people got a little pissed off at each other for like a week then got over it.
But yeah, as hard as it is to believe, people just get themselves in shitty situations and then can't/don't want to get out of them.
My fiance's family is a good example. Her parents have been married forever, but her sister's been divorced for 5 years, has 2 kids and is living with a complete shithead. Everyone in the family hates him, but she married him anyway. It's a terrible idea, and she's not stupid and knows it's a terrible idea, but she did it anyway. Partially to piss us off, partially because she wants his money.
I think your family upbringing might really be a part of why it's hard for you to understand the mindsets of these sorts of people. Mine definitely was. When my mom and dad would get into fights, which was insanely rare, they would be over in like half an hour. They'd talk it out, and that's it. Also no one pressured me to get hitched or even date. None at all. I know my fiance's sister got all sorts of pressure to get married and have a kid. So she shacked up with a military dude who got her in all sorts of trouble.
Also sometimes people will just make a bad decision because they don't think things can get better. Unlike you and I, they may not have ever seen people acting nicely to each other and solving things correctly.
I know what started the death of my marriage. It was when my ex reneged on our child agreement. We were both going to keep working and go with daycare so we could move out of our cracker box house. It started small with her extending maternity leave and then she up and quit her job of 18 years.
Having a kid changed her. She went from everything is equal to some demented entitlement attitude. Once she found motherhood to be unfullfilling she moved on to bellittling be and taking over the finances.
She was supposed to go back to work after full day school started but that never happened.
I stuck it out hoping she might become the person I married again but it didn't happen.
That's an example of the answers that have been given you clout.
The difference is that in this answer there was confirmation that the person was originally awesome, and there was also a reason for the drastic change.
That's an example of the answers that have been given you clout.
The difference is that in this answer there was confirmation that the person was originally awesome, and there was also a reason for the drastic change.
Hey guys, I know this scottlejerk is pretty entertaining, but it's not what this thread is about. Also, I know we love derailing shit, but given the seriousness of the topic and the fact that we now have a thread dedicated to FRCF scottlejerking, can we get this back on course?
Comments
Also, life partners are definitely more of a "challenging entity" because, well typically at least, you share your lifespace with them. Like you go to bed with + wake up with them, not much alone time. I think it's hella cool though cause I feel some crazy melding shit going on w/ my fiance. Feels like strength!! Power rangers combine type of stuff.
But also though I totally agree w/ the fact that there's literally no reason for people to continue following the biological imperative for procreating. It really doesn't need to be a high priority, and people shouldn't front, I'm sure a lot of us who are in relationships originally got there because we wanted to "get our freak on." But if you really want to talk about reasons for things, I just gotta say there's legit no reason for doing a single damn thing ever unless you're religious and whatnot. A single person and a married couple wind up the same way ~in the end~ So yeah, might as well just do whatever the hell, but just don't be dumb about it.
That IBM guy who has a wife who he has to hide Cowboy Bebop DVDs from. Is he just meek? What's his deal? What is going on in his mind? How does he feel about his life? How did he feel at the beginning?
Obviously you are going to change for in a relationship. Every person you meet will change you. Every experience you have as a person changes you. It's impossible not to change. When you spend a ton of time with a person, you absorb some of them and vice versa. That's just how people work.
But that kind of change isn't even conscious. It just happens. The thing that I'm questioning is how can you spend so much time with someone and grow apart from them? I imagine that if I spend enough actual time interacting with anyone that we would unavoidably grow closer. I've never had it go in the reverse. Closeness has always been proportional to time spent together, at least for me. I only seem to grow apart from people when they physically are apart.
The other thing is that sometimes someone is so far apart that they demand some sort of change that isn't the subconscious kind. It's the explicit giving orders kind. The "no you won't go to that geeky convention because I don't want you to" kind. How did you even pick a person like that in the first place? If they started out awesome, how did they turn not awesome? How could it possibly get to such a bad place?
It also begets another question. Why would someone lie so much?
Scott, I think you know the reasons. You know enough about psychology to know why people stay in bad things. Or do you really not? I'm not sure what your growing up experiences were like.
I worked in a legal aid firm that handled a lot of pro bono divorces. And a lot of domestic violence civil cases. The reasons the people stayed in it so long was usually not because they were dumb but because they were fooling themselves for some reason or another. They thought they could change the other person. They thought that things would work out if they just gave it time, or gave the other person some space.
That's a lot of it, though. You just start thinking "Maybe we aren't getting along well because we're in each other's hair too much." and start going and sitting in front of the computer instead of in front of the TV with the SO. Or instead of going for a walk, or instead of talking.
I'm not sure what's going through the IBM guy's head, honestly. That's a level of deceit that is larger than I am. I do know that at first with my relationship with Katie, I tried to hide some of my geekiness. It was because she was all outdoorsy and shit, and I thought she'd just see me as a nerd and lose interest. I dunno how long I thought that would go on for, but eventually I talked to her about some of the geekier stuff. It was about as much of a non-issue as something can be, actually. She doesn't nerd out as much as I do, but that's okay. She can appreciate the jokes and whatnot, and she can enjoy the anime that I enjoy, and enjoy the games.
I even have thoughts, being an intelligent person and prone to overthinking things, as to what things will be like in 10 years. Or more. Do I think we'll grow apart? I don't think so. We handle conflicts similarly, we talk things through rationally and logically, we have shared morals and goals, and we share something deeper than interests. We share, for the lack of a better term, a purpose. I think that will see us through the tough times to come. It's seen us through tough times currently.
But maybe the IBM guy's wife is domineering. Maybe he started dating her and she started dominating the relationship, so he just found it easier to say "Sure" and keep her happy than get out of it. It isn't logical, but people often aren't.
Anywho. Does that help at all?
I mean honestly, IBM dude mostly just had no nards to begin w/, but a lot of times shit legit simply doesnt work out cause the love-house that seemed to be so stable couldnt stand up to an earthquake. Think of the concept of a "no fault" divorce, no one has to actuallu do anything wrong for differences to spring up. All it takes is some unexpected heavy shit.
Also I firmly believe the "sticking with it" thing is just people being too weak to do a hard thing. If everything is just so crappy and you hate your partner, theres no excuse for sticking it out... even kids... wait actually, especially no excuse if there are kids.
Actually funny that you mention my growing up experiences. I think that is a large part of my lack of understanding. My parents are just chill normal people, and there's not so much conflict. My family completely lacks all the domestic craziness I read about, and I do not take it for granted one bit. I fully recognize and appreciate the rareness of having a "normal" family. Obviously is not as perfect as a fake TV family, but it's as non-crazy as it can realistically be. Of course there are small dramas, but no insane dramas whatsoever.
Not just my parents though, there is very little drama in my entire family. The closest divorce to me is my mom's brother, who is "the weird uncle." The only thing we really have to deal with is people dying, which is normal. Father time is undefeated.
But yeah, my mom collects crazy baskets. Dad doesn't give a shit. I mean, he might make good natured jokes about the baskets, but he would never in a million years try to stop my mom from doing what she likes, no matter how stupid he thinks it is. Dad's watching football. She doesn't really care. But never in a million years would she try to prevent us from watching the game. Actually, she's probably going to make some special Pot Roast for the game on Sunday. And likewise for me, no matter what nerdy shit I liked, my parents might tell me it was stupid, and they were often right, but they would still let me get Magic: The Gathering cards or Pogs or other stupid shit.
And despite these varying interests, there were still lots of things in common. You put on a Queen concert DVD and you could pack the living room. You bust out Apples to Apples and there will be much laughing in the dining room. If you come over, do not open any photo albums, because you'll be stuck there for four hours with people filling your ear with crazy stories.
If there is a problem, people just say it. For example, my grandma really needs hearing aids. She doesn't want them for some reason. Every single person in the family just straight up gives her the business about it every time we see her. Grandma, go to the ear doctor! No passive aggressive bullshit, no stupid fighting, no drama. She still hasn't gone to the ear doctor, though...
There are actually crazy people in the extended family. Like my mom has some crazy cousins out in Long Island. I think one of my grandfathers had a brother or brothers I don't remember meeting who may have started families far away that we are related to. But we just don't talk to those people or try. If there's a crazy person, we just drop them by the side of the road. The weird uncle I mentioned previously I think used to be crazier when I was younger. I actually remember the first time I met him I think perhaps because he wasn't on speaking terms at earlier times. He's recently been somewhat less crazy, and has appeared more often.
So while I know that these extreme family dramas are quite common, from reading Fark, I actually don't understand them all that well. I can understand boyfriend/girlfriend drama. You don't know the person that well. It's still early in the relationship. You just met this person. I still have a hard time understanding how you could know someone for so long, be so close to them that you marry them, and then it's still fucked the fuck up? Really?
But yeah, as hard as it is to believe, people just get themselves in shitty situations and then can't/don't want to get out of them.
My fiance's family is a good example. Her parents have been married forever, but her sister's been divorced for 5 years, has 2 kids and is living with a complete shithead. Everyone in the family hates him, but she married him anyway. It's a terrible idea, and she's not stupid and knows it's a terrible idea, but she did it anyway. Partially to piss us off, partially because she wants his money.
I think your family upbringing might really be a part of why it's hard for you to understand the mindsets of these sorts of people. Mine definitely was. When my mom and dad would get into fights, which was insanely rare, they would be over in like half an hour. They'd talk it out, and that's it. Also no one pressured me to get hitched or even date. None at all. I know my fiance's sister got all sorts of pressure to get married and have a kid. So she shacked up with a military dude who got her in all sorts of trouble.
Also sometimes people will just make a bad decision because they don't think things can get better. Unlike you and I, they may not have ever seen people acting nicely to each other and solving things correctly.
Having a kid changed her. She went from everything is equal to some demented entitlement attitude. Once she found motherhood to be unfullfilling she moved on to bellittling be and taking over the finances.
She was supposed to go back to work after full day school started but that never happened.
I stuck it out hoping she might become the person I married again but it didn't happen.
>>>/scott/